Saabscene Saab Forum - Saab Technical Information Resource banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Am pondering a ECU upgrade for my 9-5 2.3lpt and am wondering which would be the best one to go for. I've searched around the site and there seem to be differing opinions. I'm attracted to the BSR PPC idea as I can put the car back to standard and it also seems to have the highest power boost for the cost (+64bhp). What's the catch? Would it be better to talk to Abbott for example? Does anyone have anyexperience of Superchips (who are very near me in Buckingham)?

Incidentally, the car has done nearly 90,000 miles - will the engine be fit enough to take the upgrade? (It's fine at the moment).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,618 Posts
Adam,

One word : Maptun.

http://www.maptun.co.uk/

From the above mentioned website :
Saab Centre
Unit 11 Fernfield Farm Ind. Est.
Mursley
Milton Keynes
Buckinghamshire
MK17 0PS

Telephone: 01908 505587
Telefax: 01908 503620

Contact Andy Buik or Paul Williams at Saab Centre to discuss your Maptun upgrade requirements.[/b]
90K miles is really nothing for the 2.3. Just make sure you have all the crankcase ventilation updates and that your DI cassette is a good one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
If you want to downgrade your car back to original in future I recommend you to keep your original trionic unit.

Otherwise, Maptun - like Mark A said - is the way to go. With LPT bang for the buck ratio is reasonable ( which is not the case with stage one for 9-5 aero - only some additional midrange torque...).

I personally drive with Maptun stage 5 in my 9-5, and I am very satisfied with their products and customer service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the quick response, chaps. Funny you should mention my DI cassette - I suspect it's not entirely healthy, but my friendly, neighbourhood dealer can't find anything wrong with it. Once the car's out of warranty, I think I'll investigate Saab Centre.

Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Adam, when you say "which one is best to go for" it depends on your needs and desires!

If you want total ease and convenience, being able to 'tune' your car in 15 minutes in your own driveway at the touch of a button then BSR PPC may be for you. As you say, you can 'convert' it back nice and easy as well.

Furthermore, you wont need to take your ECU out and send it off, or make a trip to the tuners (or wait for them to arrive). Cost are also kept down as you wont need to 'pay the extra' to keep your old ECU if you did want the option to go back to 'stock'.

If all of this sounds appealling then go BSR, at around £500 its a fun investment.

If on the other hand you want a more 'bespoke' tune, or feel that other brands are more Saab focussed, then go with them.

There is no 'catch' with BSR they are just offering a different type of service.

Either way, you'll love that extra mid/high range
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Originally posted by paolo:
[qb]Adam, when you say "which one is best to go for" it depends on your needs and desires!

If you want total ease and convenience, being able to 'tune' your car in 15 minutes in your own driveway at the touch of a button then BSR PPC may be for you. As you say, you can 'convert' it back nice and easy as well.

Furthermore, you wont need to take your ECU out and send it off, or make a trip to the tuners (or wait for them to arrive). Cost are also kept down as you wont need to 'pay the extra' to keep your old ECU if you did want the option to go back to 'stock'.

If all of this sounds appealling then go BSR, at around £500 its a fun investment.

If on the other hand you want a more 'bespoke' tune, or feel that other brands are more Saab focussed, then go with them.

There is no 'catch' with BSR they are just offering a different type of service.

Either way, you'll love that extra mid/high range  
 [/qb][/b]
With T7 Speedparts ( and BSR, same software ) is prone to knocking. Here in Finland I know at least two cars with T7 with SP software, which were knocking very badly while dynoing ( and it was not T7 calibration issue, but stayed there with every run ). I know also one T7 car which destroyed two pistons and was equipped with SP software.

Notice however, that T7 engines have had problems with pistons even with std configuration, so maybe this is not SP related.

There are still many good T7 tuners left. In alphabetical order these are:
1. Hirsch
2. Maptun
3. Nordic

I do not have any personal experiences of Hirsch, but their have very professional attitude what comes to T7 tuning. Nordic / Maptun has very good customer service ( Nordic even better ), and these both can support you in practice if you'll encounter some problems with your tuning.

It is very easy to extract horsepower from turbocharged engines, but it's much more difficult / expensive to extract that power with reliability.

Just my 0.02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The other point I've been wondering about is how drivability is affected. Is stage one a gentle gain in power as the engine revs climb, or does it come in with a thump like a turbodiesel? I wouldn't really want the latter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Originally posted by AdamH:
[qb]The other point I've been wondering about is how drivability is affected.  Is stage one a gentle gain in power as the engine revs climb, or does it come in with a thump like a turbodiesel?  I wouldn't really want the latter. [/qb][/b]
No problems with drivability or fuel consumption. Maptun feels more gentle than BSR, but offers better performance when measured with stopwatch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,892 Posts
The BSR/Speedparts PPC route is very attractive from a convienience point of view, BUT I'm still a little wary of general chip tuners such as BSR or Superchips in the UK, rather than going to a Saab Trionic T7 specific tuner such as Hirsch, Maptun or Nordic (really wish they had a UK contact
)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,371 Posts
Originally posted by AdamH:
[qb]The other point I've been wondering about is how drivability is affected.  Is stage one a gentle gain in power as the engine revs climb, or does it come in with a thump like a turbodiesel?  I wouldn't really want the latter. [/qb][/b]
My 9-5 2.0 has the 192bhp Saab upgrade. When I first had it, it felt no different - in fact a bit disappointing as it was so subtle! The main difference is thatthe LPT gave up doing anything after about 4000rpm, but with the upgrade it just keeps going.

So driveability unlikely to be a problem - SWMBO wouldn't even have noticed if I hadn't told her.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,371 Posts
Originally posted by AdamH:
[qb]Incidentally, the car has done nearly 90,000 miles - will the engine be fit enough to take the upgrade?  (It's fine at the moment). [/qb][/b]
Sorry, forgot to pick up your point regarding mileage - mine was "done" at 93,000 about two years ago, and now has 133,000 on the clock with no problems. The only thing that *might* be construed as being down to the upgrade was the new clutch at c.100,000 - although this is a reasonable mileage & might have been due anyway...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
I have a Hirsch stage 1 and am very pleased with it.
However, not sure if there's further upgrades available from Hirsch? Anyone know?[/b]
By chance, I spoke to Hirsch today to see what they have to offer that would make my 9-5 2.0 LPT a bit swifter, over and above their Stage 1 I already have installed.

The answer was that until 2 years ago they had a Step 2 which basically used the same software but a larger IC (plus possibly a larger intake pipe, they weren't too clear about this). This would have given 222 bhp, only marginally more than the 210 you get with Stage 1. Anything beyond that, I was told, would require a larger turbo and a custom programming job, meaning having the car there for (they said) 2 or 3 days.

Since the 2.3 LPT uses the same turbo as the 2.0 LPT, I would guess that without a new turbo and a custom program Hirsch would only be able to get you 15 to 20 more horses - if they have anything to offer at all for that car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Yes, the GT17 in the 9-5 and in the 9-3 LPT with Trionic 7 maxes out at 220 hp, while the T25 in the Trionic 5 LPTs (900II, 9000, early 9-3) could easily reach 250 hp. But it has less lag

Yours,

Philip

P.S. Just for your info: Mitsu TD04-HL15T in the 9-3 Trionic 7 Aero, 9-5 Aero and 9-3 Viggen will max out around 280 hp, the same turbo in the 9000 Aero has a 6cm exhaust part and maxes out around 300 hp, but also has less grunt in the lower end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Originally posted by paolo:
[qb]What part of my post dont you agree with?
The 'catch' part or all of it? [/qb][/b]
This part:

[qb]If all of this sounds appealling then go BSR, at around £500 its a fun investment.[/qb][/b]
£500 for knocking.... Fun ? Is knocking fun ? It's cheaper to buy directly MBC and play with it; you will get same power output with less knocking
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
95 power,
How does the 'knocking' show itself? As a pinking sound or as a stuttering of the engine as the ignition retards to stop it? (therefore not actually pinking).
Is it noticable to the driver? Or is it doing damage incognito?
I'm interested as my car and many others i know who run BSR have never experienced any pinking/knocking, in fact the engine runs a lot smoother than before and can pull lower down better than before (you could here the pinking very slightly on the original stock set up.)

Ive now covered 10,000 miles and the BSR has given me fun! Pretty similar power delivery to stock lower down - only smoother- but keeps pulling strong after 3.5k right up to 6+k unlike stock. 2nd gear and 4th gear seem to give the best performance, floor it in second doing 30mph and your doing 60-65mph like a shot.
I'll always bow down to those with a lot more experience and I'm sure other tuners are excellent but where's the evidence to slate BSR?
Has anyone else had their engine ruined by a BSR tune? What about another tuner?
Cheers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
OK, so it looks as though Maptun is probably the way to go. I have two questions:

1. What are the emissions implications of an ECU upgrade? I presume passing the MoT standard shouldn't be a problem?

2. From what I read of the post on knock, is a 2.3lpt chipped to 230bhp or so in a more highly stressed state of tune than a stock 230bhp Aero? Do they drive differently?
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top