[1989agoodvintage]

Ok, I've started looking for after market wheels for the CD as part of the project to improve it's roadholding. I hadn't previously considered 17" wheels before due to the harsh ride which results from the fitment of these. However, since most people at the trackday who had fitted after market wheels chose 17" rims rather than 16" I'm thinking the gains must outweigh the disadvnatages. Right?

What I need to know is how to chose these wheels, I know 17" (diameter) x 7" (width) are the optimum dimensions that will fit into the arches without modification and that I need to fit the wheels to my standard 4-bolt hubs. What other dimensions do I need to know, i.e. bolt spacings, diameter and offsets, i.e. how far car the rim protrude the hub and how "deep" back from the hub can I go?

I hope this makes sense.

BTW, no I don't want Avez A's, I want to be individualistic.

 

[cdcarlsson]

Jason,
I would say the benefits of a 17 inch rim would be that as the sidewall of the fitted tyre will be shorter, then less flexing will occour under load. This could lead to a sharper steering feel, but I don't think it will improve the lateral grip of the tyre, if the same tyre compound was used.
The tyres that you are currently running are towards the budget end of the market, if you went for a 16 inch rim the cost of the tyres would be lower and you could go for the best compounds availible. This would also bring down the cost of the wheels.
Nick.

 

[markcanderson]

but I don't think it will improve the lateral grip of the tyre, if the same tyre compound was used.[/b]

Except for the fact that the 17'' inch wheels will probably also be wider.

So instead of say running a 205/50-16 tyre on a set of aeros.. he could be running 215/45-17 (or even 225/40-17) on his 17in.. which may lead to a 40 or 80 mil larger contact patch.

 

[cdcarlsson]

I'm assuming that as Jason wishes to buy new wheels and tyres then it would be possible to fit the same (215) width tyres to an appropriate 16 inch wheel. I believe if comfort is a major consideration then this would be a good compromise.

Nick.

 

[1989agoodvintage]

Well the 15" Ronals I currently have fitted are shod with 205/55 R15's. Admittedly the current set of tyres are not a recognised brand so I could probably increase grip significantly by fitting some high performance tyres at the cost of £350 to £500 quid depending on where I get them from.

he could be running 215/45-17 (or even 225/40-17) on his 17in[/b]

Yes, the more footprint the better as the CD is a big, long motor. As Nick says, the 17's will give sharper steering response and steering response is pretty average at the moment.

Andy Bowles gave me a link to a place based in Nottingham that stocks wheels, it's probably worth popping up there later in the month to ask them what they can supply. However, my ad in the classifieds been edited and I'm not too fussy, used wheels in fair condition will more than suffice.

 

[cdcarlsson]

Jason,
Have you fitted poly bushes to the lower wishbones? They certainly tighten up the steering reponse if the existing ones are tired.

Nick.

 

[billj]

I reckon I was getting pretty good grip on my Aero wheels with 205/55/16 Bridgestones, and I wouldn't consider changing the wheels except for the fact that I liked MarkE's AP brake kit and they need 17" wheels. I'll be interested to see what you turn up, Jason.

Talking to Trent Saab about wheels, they say that many wheels that come in the 4x108 bolt pattern (which is what you need) are 38mm offset because this is what is used on Fords. For the 9000, Trent recommend 25mm offset.

I'll really be sad to lose my nice Super Aeros, as I love having the car look almost standard. I wouldn't mind paying out a bit extra (not silly money, though) for wheels that look quite "Saab-ish". Are the 17" exposed-bolt 3-spoke wheels (like the old 9-5 Aero?) available with the 4-bolt pattern?

 

[1989agoodvintage]

Are the 17" exposed-bolt 3-spoke wheels (like the old 9-5 Aero?) available with the 4-bolt pattern?  [/b]

Yes, those wheels are lovely, but I've never seen them advertised anywhere. I am tempted to go for the 16" Aero's if they are still on special offer at the dealers. But I'll keep looking.

 

[billj]

Originally posted by Jason (dented 9000CD):
[qb]I am tempted to go for the 16" Aero's if they are still on special offer at the dealers. But I'll keep looking.[/qb][/b]

I believe Neo Brothers were selling these at a reasonable price. A colleague's wife got them from there for her 9000 Anniversary (it should already have had them, but came with 15" wheels when she bought it and she only found recently they were the wrong wheels).

P.S. my Aeros probably won't be up for sale for a while. I need to wear out my tyres first, although that shouldn't take long if I put my mind to it

 

[john]

A colleague's wife got them from there for her 9000 Anniversary (it should already have had them, but came with 15" wheels when she bought it and she only found recently they were the wrong wheels).[/b]

The 9000 Anniversary came with it's own eight spoke alloys, didn't it?

 

[wrighar]

The 9000 Anniversary came with it's own eight spoke alloys, didn't it?  [/b]

Yes, unless it was a 1998 edition 2.3 full pressure Turbo with the Aero engine (225bhp) when it came with the open bolt hole 16" aero's

 

[billj]

Originally posted by /john:
[qb]The 9000 Anniversary came with it's own eight spoke alloys, didn't it?[/qb][/b]

Err... dunno!

It was her dealer who told her the 15" ones were wrong. I think they were the "swept 3-spoke" ones like my '95 and they were phased out before her '97 was produced.

OK, a quick look on the web shows some 9000 Anniversaries with the 8-spoke wheels, and some with 3-spoke 15"! I get the impression that this lady's car was sold as an Anniversary, but it was really a CS with leather, ACC, etc. as standard. I can't even remember whether hers has the Aero body kit.



Hmm...
I'll have to bow to your greater knowledge, /john, 'cos I haven't a clue.

 

[john]

Most Anniversaries that I have seen have had these eight spoke alloys on, but I have also seen a few with three-spokes. Suppose it is all down to what people ordered at the time, or what subsequent owners have done.

 

[john]

from http://www.saabmuseum.co.uk/9000/my.html#1997

Model Year 1997

1997 was the 50th anniversary of Saab which was commemorated by a special 9000 with two-tone leather embossed with Saab's classic aeroplane symbol. Alloy wheels and a special wood-leather steering wheel set this 9000 apart. Known as the Jubileum in Sweden and as the Anniversary in other markets the demand was high.

The 9000 range was powered by 150hp, 170hp or 200hp turbo-charged engines. The turbo-less engine gave 130hp and the V6 engine was dropped from the range for most markets.

Model Year 1998

Saab only the CS version of the Saab 9000 during the last year of this model. Many of the cars made were Anniversary versions.

 

[billj]

See, "greater knowledge"!

Thanks for that, /john. I should've gone straight there for info like I usually do.

 

[bill]

not exactly sure of the science here but there comes a point where increasing the width of the tyres doesn't increase the amount of rubber on the road it simply changes the shape of the contact patch/footprint. As the footprint gets wider, so it gets shorter front to back.

In a straight line this improves grip but for lateral loads through the corners you end up with effectively less rubber carrying the increasing load and so breakaway, when it arrives, is far faster

.

17" wheels improve looks, allow for bigger brake discs and allow lower tyre profiles to be used with consequent improvement in sidewall stiffness, sharper steering, the ability for the suspension to do its job etc.

Anyone else know more about this?

Billthetractordriver

 

[ylee coyote]

I have 17 x 7.5 inch rims with 235/40 tyres
(goodyear f1's)
good ride ,xceptional road holding ,a little tramlining
First set of tyres were cheap 205/40..harsh/kerbed all the time tyres were too "tight" on the rims
by increasing the width you increase the sidewall depth and hence the sidewall compliance ,also alows it to move around more and gives a smoother ride.
On my second set of 17 " ..bent one of the first set and had to replace the lot
the pcd is the same as fords but the inside diameter is different
I extensively reviewed what is available and there is not very much .....In the end I went to the guys who sold me the fist set ..Skidz in falkirk who found me a set of Allesio wheels which are available with a saab fitting kit for £350 set !
there was not too much of a choice!!

 

[billj]

I've also had it pointed out that it's likely not all 17" wheels will accommodate the AP brakes, depending on the inside diameter and the internal shape of the wheel. I''ll have to watch for that. I know MarkE's wheels fit (obviously), but his wheels, although nice, aren't as "Saab-ish" as I'd like. As Ylee says, though, I may have little choice in the end.

 

[Paul D]

Just to add that Anniversary's also had contrasting 'Wilton' carpets (wow! ) and Aero body kit in terms of spoilers, matching bumpers, etc. As far as the marketing bumph went, all had the std 8 spoke alloys except the Aero version - as per std issue.

 

[1989agoodvintage]

I've also had it pointed out that it's likely not all 17" wheels will accommodate the AP brakes, depending on the inside diameter and the internal shape of the wheel. I''ll have to watch for that. I know MarkE's wheels fit (obviously), but his wheels, although nice, aren't as "Saab-ish" as I'd like. As Ylee says, though, I may have little choice in the end.  [/b]

The more extreme (and costly) solution is to fit wheel spacers and flare the arches a la the Green 9000 hatch at the trackday. I know the wheels Mark E has are the ones Trent Saab are doing a deal on at the moment and they will accomodate the AP 4-pot calipers without the need for a wheel spacer to be fitted. Personally, I prefer deep-dish rims to flat rims and I'm not bothered about getting the 4-pot cals. I'm going to get the Brembo grey-iron discs and Ferodo pads again, probably more costly to run in the long run but less initial layout. And it's those big initial layouts that my finances will not accomodate.