Ok figured I may as well start a thread just about Viggens. I felt bad keeping that on-going argument in the wrong thread!
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I realize the 9000 that I saw a video of is massively faster than my car from 0-100. I've done 100 mph in maaaaaybe 14.6 seconds if I'm pushing it, and it's cool out. But keep in mind this is an all stock Viggen. That means I'm still running 5 psi in 1st regardless of traction, 12 psi in second again regardless of traction, and not till 3rd to a get out a measely 15 psi. (Actually 15 psi has a number of turbo friends drooling, but for a Viggen, stock is stock right? Still could be better) I feel, indeed I know, the car would be quicker even with the same horses, but with better boost (which would mean more torque and the same hp over more RPMs). It may have (by the accelleration readings) 281 lb ft. Or hell even if it doesn't have that in 3rd, in 2nd it's lower STILL. For it to be expected to compete with a modified car in accelleration is silly at best! The boost lag with two catalytic converters and all stock exhaust and intake (though I have recently put a filter and discovered a new healthy 33 mpg average on the highway), is insane compared to a modified car! And with a heavily modified 9000 even if you only have 243 hp, you honestly must have well over that in torque.
Oh and I'm curious if you're using the stock turbo. I don't know how much horsepower that TD04HL-15T can put out, but if you watch the video you can see the boost backing off in 3rd gear at high rpm. TD04H-13G from the WRX USDM is supposed to be able to put out 300 hp. Could it be reasonable to say that a larger 15T compressor wheel could push more? Is the 15T bigger than the 13G? I don't know if that's the turbo or computer backing off the boost. Seems like the turbo just runs out of breath. Could be a tapered boost curve. Some turbo cars have that (like the C900's). If anyone has any ideas on that, I'm all ears.
Oh and really, why on earth did someone campare their Viggen to mine and NOT show that I shifted and they didn't!? Ok, perhaps that was just overlooked when recording the two as it's the only recording of the speedometer that's any good I have to send. But still ... .8 seconds is probably very very close to what it took me to shift. And the Viggen I'm being compared against is a 99 model which is supposed to be around 200 lbs lighter, and modified slightly, it also may not have had a passenger? I don't know about that one. Didn't ask
Oh and someone said they pulled .75 g's out of their Saab???? Holy christ-pop!! My tires would break loose at .60 g's and turn into melted rubber! They almost break loose at the .55 g's in 1st gear and that's only on 5 psi!! (another thing some turbo friends of mine are pissed about) Anyway ... to change the subject slightly.
I'm still looking for anyone who's put water injection on a Viggen. Also if and when I put it on my Viggen, I'm currently modifying an old Saab APC to controll my boost using one of the old boost pressure sensors and a boost solenoid! I thought it would be fun and way more controllable than a MBC. Not only can you adjust the max boost, but also the boost climb rate!! And if you put the variable resistors inside the car you can even do it on the go! I'm not looking for any insane amount of boost. Maybe just a healthy 19.5 psi or so ... especially in 2nd gear. 12 psi would feel positively anemic next to even the 15 psi of 3rd and up gears as they are now! We'll just have to see how it pans out. If the T7 engine computer doesn't like it I may be SOL ... but hey, what's a few $ for an old APC some resistors and some wire? Barely more than the MBC (less than some I've seen) and at least as good if not better!
But let's get back to the hp issue. Perhaps when Phillip's Viggen was on the dyno it was a little warmish out? Anytime it's over about 10-12 degrees celsius over here the g-tech displays a little less hp, and after a little hard running the boost doesn't peg itself at the edge of the red like it normally would. And also, using the g-tech in direct sunlight will cause it to give bad readings, and all my runs were at night as a result. Perhaps I'm missing something. But I probably made as much as 50 runs with that g-tech and it was pretty consistent. When it wasn't consistent it was obviously well off the standard deviation. I just don't see why it gets such a bad rap. Unless you misstreat it, it does seem to give relatively accurate results. Believe me if it were always reading "higher" than it should, my friend Pablo with a modified WRX wouldn't have been angry. lol He had a FMIC, MBC, AEM intake, and full 3" exhaust, and was only able to get 215 hp to the wheels without hitting the overboost. And you know what, his accelleration readings .. they were lower than mine as well. We actually did a moving start drag race (no way I'm racing AWD from a dead stop LOL), and the Viggen pulled him. He wouldn't believe the G-tech either till he saw that car pulling away slowly. He later took his car to a dyno, what did it put down? 217 wheel hp. A number of other people have noticed lower readings than they expected. Believe me when I bought the Viggen I was expecting 185-195 wheel hp at best because of how low my friends cars were reading. I thought maybe it was reading too low, but the very first run I made with it was 226 hp. Then 235 the next night, and while sometimes you would get slightly lower readings just like on a dyno, the peak readings usually were between 235-245, 252 was an especially cold night with high humidity (saabs LOVE humidity for some reason even though I personally don't) it put down 252 on way on the road, I drove it a bit further to cool the intercooler, then when I came back to the same spot the other way it put down 250. I will definetly need to take this car to a dyno. You have no idea how many skeptics I've had. But as Pablo, and James (with the EVO 8 who also came to regret meeting the mighty Viggen) found out the hard way, sometimes you get more than you bargained for.
Oh and I'm curious if you're using the stock turbo. I don't know how much horsepower that TD04HL-15T can put out, but if you watch the video you can see the boost backing off in 3rd gear at high rpm. TD04H-13G from the WRX USDM is supposed to be able to put out 300 hp. Could it be reasonable to say that a larger 15T compressor wheel could push more? Is the 15T bigger than the 13G? I don't know if that's the turbo or computer backing off the boost. Seems like the turbo just runs out of breath. Could be a tapered boost curve. Some turbo cars have that (like the C900's). If anyone has any ideas on that, I'm all ears.
Oh and really, why on earth did someone campare their Viggen to mine and NOT show that I shifted and they didn't!? Ok, perhaps that was just overlooked when recording the two as it's the only recording of the speedometer that's any good I have to send. But still ... .8 seconds is probably very very close to what it took me to shift. And the Viggen I'm being compared against is a 99 model which is supposed to be around 200 lbs lighter, and modified slightly, it also may not have had a passenger? I don't know about that one. Didn't ask
Oh and someone said they pulled .75 g's out of their Saab???? Holy christ-pop!! My tires would break loose at .60 g's and turn into melted rubber! They almost break loose at the .55 g's in 1st gear and that's only on 5 psi!! (another thing some turbo friends of mine are pissed about) Anyway ... to change the subject slightly.
I'm still looking for anyone who's put water injection on a Viggen. Also if and when I put it on my Viggen, I'm currently modifying an old Saab APC to controll my boost using one of the old boost pressure sensors and a boost solenoid! I thought it would be fun and way more controllable than a MBC. Not only can you adjust the max boost, but also the boost climb rate!! And if you put the variable resistors inside the car you can even do it on the go! I'm not looking for any insane amount of boost. Maybe just a healthy 19.5 psi or so ... especially in 2nd gear. 12 psi would feel positively anemic next to even the 15 psi of 3rd and up gears as they are now! We'll just have to see how it pans out. If the T7 engine computer doesn't like it I may be SOL ... but hey, what's a few $ for an old APC some resistors and some wire? Barely more than the MBC (less than some I've seen) and at least as good if not better!
But let's get back to the hp issue. Perhaps when Phillip's Viggen was on the dyno it was a little warmish out? Anytime it's over about 10-12 degrees celsius over here the g-tech displays a little less hp, and after a little hard running the boost doesn't peg itself at the edge of the red like it normally would. And also, using the g-tech in direct sunlight will cause it to give bad readings, and all my runs were at night as a result. Perhaps I'm missing something. But I probably made as much as 50 runs with that g-tech and it was pretty consistent. When it wasn't consistent it was obviously well off the standard deviation. I just don't see why it gets such a bad rap. Unless you misstreat it, it does seem to give relatively accurate results. Believe me if it were always reading "higher" than it should, my friend Pablo with a modified WRX wouldn't have been angry. lol He had a FMIC, MBC, AEM intake, and full 3" exhaust, and was only able to get 215 hp to the wheels without hitting the overboost. And you know what, his accelleration readings .. they were lower than mine as well. We actually did a moving start drag race (no way I'm racing AWD from a dead stop LOL), and the Viggen pulled him. He wouldn't believe the G-tech either till he saw that car pulling away slowly. He later took his car to a dyno, what did it put down? 217 wheel hp. A number of other people have noticed lower readings than they expected. Believe me when I bought the Viggen I was expecting 185-195 wheel hp at best because of how low my friends cars were reading. I thought maybe it was reading too low, but the very first run I made with it was 226 hp. Then 235 the next night, and while sometimes you would get slightly lower readings just like on a dyno, the peak readings usually were between 235-245, 252 was an especially cold night with high humidity (saabs LOVE humidity for some reason even though I personally don't) it put down 252 on way on the road, I drove it a bit further to cool the intercooler, then when I came back to the same spot the other way it put down 250. I will definetly need to take this car to a dyno. You have no idea how many skeptics I've had. But as Pablo, and James (with the EVO 8 who also came to regret meeting the mighty Viggen) found out the hard way, sometimes you get more than you bargained for.
