[peter messenger]

i have just bought a saab branded turbo oil. marked long life fully synthetic. i am not sure about it as the rating is 0w-30. cost 32quid for 4 ltr. would you use it?

 

[Friberg]

No I wouldn't use it - mainly because of the viscosity at high temperature(30)... For winter-use here in Sweden it would be a good choice.

I run with Mobile 1 5w-50 and that oil can cope with track days without breaking down too much.

 

[tobyfield]

For your car that oil should be fine. Saab also sell High Performance Turbo Oil which is 0w40, the same as Mobil 1.

If anyone disagrees with me on that for UK use, I'd like to hear your views.

 

[philcrombie]

0W-40 seems to be the consensus for v.good normal driving, 5W-50 being more of a motorsport alternative. - If you look at the mobil website, it guides you to the same conclusion.
I'm not sure on the 0W-30, but I would assume this would be the same as 0W-40 on a cold start (eg nice and fluid) but would run thinner (too thin?) at engine operating temperatures.
Saab mention xxW-30 oils in their manuals frequently, so its not going to be far off.

 

[Alex_S]

The conscensus from turbo specialists that I have spoken to in the past is that 0w oil is not to be used in turbo charged cars.

I have also seen info stating that 0w oils are not to be used in any turbo charged Ford RS, Renault 5 GT Turbos, Mitsu Evos, Impreza Turbos and Golf Rallye. My local Saab specialist has also received this advice from his turbo supplier.

The 0w oils were created for use in engines with very large tappets (ie Ford Zetec) which obviously need the oil to reach the tappets very quickly from starting.

 

[philcrombie]

The only further info. I can add is that the saab main dealers use Saab rebranded mobil 1 0W-40 oil in the turbo cars - which gives me a bit of confidence.

Cold starting viscocity - 0W is runny, 5W is a bit thicker..10W etc. 0W will be great in winter but maybe a 5 or 10W could be better for summer use.

Hot running viscocity: xxW-30 is runny when hot, -40 thicker and -50 thicker still. Most recommendations are along the lines of the -40 or -50, I think -30 will be a bit watery when very hot wheras -50 will be great for hard driving.

I think my perfect choice would be mobil 1 5W-40 , but I dont think it exists. I'm 50/50 between the 5W-50 and 0W-40 - either way I dont think it will be a bad choice but the comments from the turbo specialist are interesting.

PS - I still havent really answered the first question, but do a search on Mobil 1 or 0W-40 on the main saab 9000 forum and there are lots of conversations and links that might help!

 

[Mark B]

Peter,

where did you buy this stuff from? As far as I'm aware, Saab sell the following oils:

"Saab engine oil: Saab mineral oil. SAE 10W-40. Good cold start function. Can be used in all engine types except high performance turbo and diesel engines."

"Saab turbo oil: semi-synthetic multigrade oil. SAE 5W-30. Improved fuel consumption. Good cold start function. For use in all engine types, except high performance turbo engines."

"Saab high performance turbo oil: fully synthetic multigrade oil. SAE 0W-40. Improves fuel consumption by 3.8%. Excellent cold-start function. For use in all engine types, including diesel and high performance turbo engines."

So I'm a bit puzzled as to where you found a 0W-30 oil, although they are starting to be used in Europe, especially in the long oil change interval diesel engines. They have been used in the US of A for some time, indeed Honda and Ford now specify 0W-20 oils there. Mobil 1 in the US of A market 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50 oils, and it is the 0W-40 that is recommended for high performance European cars.

I'd be a little wary of using it, unless Saab have changed there views and now recommend such a product. A possible drawback is that you may suffer from increased oil consumption as the oil is obviously thinner at operating temperatures, typically 10 centi Stokes @ 100C rather than about 14 cSt.

 

[zeke]

The Saab brand of Mobil1 0W-40 has an additive package that has higher levels of Magnesium, Zinc and Phosphorus - it's more like a diesel additive package, like what's found in Mobil Delvac. All the UOAs I've read, where non-Saab M1 0W-40 is used on turbo engines, the viscosity does tend to thin out over time - down to a 30 weight, IIRC. You guys in the UK have a pretty temperate climate. I would think that 0W is a bit of overkill there. Here in New England, it's not uncommon for the temperatures to drop to -20 Cº in January - in fact, last year those temperatures held from December through February. I'm sure Saab is pushing the 0W for the fuel figures rather than the benefits it may give during extreme cold start-ups.

 

[zeke]

Oh, one other note: I almost spit out my coffee when I went back and reread the original post - £32/4 liters! I use Mobil 1 15w-50 and thought I was paying a lot - ~£13/4 liters. I know that petrol is taxed more there than here, is it the same with motor oil, too?

 

[philcrombie]

What I haven't seen in any of the conversations is : - 0W my be overkill for the UK, but will that actually cause any problems? Once it cools, the 0W will be thinner than the 10W on startup - does that matter?
The only issue I can see is greater chance of leaks and maybe the engine will be noisier?

 

[Mark B]

Robert, what is a UOA?

Unfortunately, in the UK we can no longer get Mobil 1 5W-50. We are now limited to 0W-40 and 15W-50. The main alternative is Castrol RS (which I don't think you get in the US) as 0W-40 or 10W-60. Or a whole bunch of 5W-40 synthetics oils from the main petrol sellers.

Robert, ensure you are sitting down without coffee before reading on.....

Good oils are more expensive here than in the US, I suspect they have a healthy profit margin. BUT they are much more expensive in Germany and most other continental countries, typically about DOUBLE the UK price. I always assumed that this was because people who drive to work at 150 mph are prepared to pay top prices for top oils, whereas in the UK, most people think that all oils are the same anyway! No doubt one of our continental friends will be along shortly to confirm what they pay.

 

[philcrombie]

its about £20 odd in Costco (cheapest I can find - but you need to be a member/have a job(!) and official high street price is £34 = taking the p***. Issue being that if you want 'the best stuff' then you are willing to pay for it....
And yes - the tax will be much higher here than in the US for engine oil too.

 

[philcrombie]

Mobil 1 in France is meant to be cheap.. I'm going on Friday, so will report back! I'll also be in the tax free haven that is Andorra, although sales seem to be limited to 3litre Vodka bottles and car stereos...

 

[Mark B]

Faero, I'm not aware of any 10W full synthetic oils being readily available (RS 10W-60 is not that easy to find). Except for Mobil and Castrol, most of the readily available full synthetics are 5W-40. If you look at the low temperature viscocity requirements for 0W and 5W, I think you'll find there's not much difference. In common with a lot of people on this board, I use 0W-40 and have no leaks and no useage between services.

 

[philcrombie]

thanks Mark - I'm happy with the 0W-40 choice and I agree that the 0W or 5W isnt going to make much difference under normal conditions - We just need to see where Peter has got this oil from ! - I agree that I haven't seen that spec in the Saab branded list either.

 

[zeke]

Mark, UOA - used oil analysis - and I would think 15W-50 would be fine to use there. I started a thread on UOA, but let me say here that the oil I had analysed was in my Saab last winter. I never started the car when the ambient temperature went below 20º F (about -6 Cº). I don't imagine the temperatures get much below that in the southern part of the UK. Perhaps if you add a quart of a 0W to the mix, it would add some cold weather insurance. Anyway, I think the 15W-50 has worked very well for me and like the higher viscosity in an engine that runs much higher than 'normal' boost pressures.

 

[mark e]

How many times have I said this?

Saab Turbo Oil= Mobil 1. NO NO NO NO NO!

Saab Turbo Oil= Fully synthetic oil supplied by Mobil. YES.

Mobil do not allow the Mobil 1 formulation to be sold as anything other than Mobil 1 in order to protect it's marketing postion as "the" premium oil.

 

[mark e]

Originally posted by Alex_S:
The conscensus from turbo specialists that I have spoken to in the past is that 0w oil is not to be used in turbo charged cars...[/b]

I'm sceptical about the science behind this. I know that switching to a 0W oil after you may have been running a thicker density can cause some problems with leaks. If the parts from new are properly toleranced then I see no reason why the thinnest oil (=lowest friction) should not be used.

It is however considered good practice to use the thicker grades of synthetic oil on cars that already have significant wear.

The reported short lifespan (circa 25k) between engine rebuilds on Scoobies etc suggest to me that the tolerancing is not good to start with, alllowing too much unwanted movement, resulting in wear. A thicker oil will reduce this.

The 0w oils were created for use in engines with very large tappets (ie Ford Zetec) which obviously need the oil to reach the tappets very quickly from starting.[/b]

The Mobil 0w synthetic oils predate the Zetec engines by some 15-20 years...

 

[Aero]

From my 9-3 manual for ref:

 

[zeke]

You guys in the UK or on the continent are going to be jealous, but listen to this deal: There's a VW/Audi/Porsche performance company, called Rocky Mountain Motorsport, that recently ran a web 'special' on Lubro-Moly (German) 0W-40 - I was able to pick-up 6-5 liter containers for $9.99/container
(~£6.66/container) - that's just a little over a quid per liter

I've seen dino juice that was more expensive! If it's any consolation, wages are probably a little less here than in the UK, or most European countries