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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Unfortunately I have a dark side A TR7 that I use for Club Triumph endurance (Round Britain & Europe) events and trackdays. It is mitigated by the fact I am progressively rebuilding the car to Saab standards After much work my project for next year is to install a Saab Turbo engine.


On the face of it it should be easy, and a B series injection would be. But I want to use a twin cam turbo. This means the turbo and the dizzy will be in the passengers lap. I need to build a hybrid Saab engine. What I believe I need is a C900 block (the TR sump will fit) and a 9000 2.3 SDI head, turbo & wiring loom. It is rumored that it will fit. As a trial I intend to build a mock up from non working parts and trial fit it in a wreck TR7, then build a full working engine when I have proven it.

Any ideas where I can source the parts, or any ideas which bits I could put together to get the turbo and the dizzy at the other end of the engine.

Thanks, Chris
 

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As you may of seen I have a 1988 16v turbo engine which your more than welcome to

I am in Scotland, but you can just take it away.

As to ignition/injection check out companies like Haltech and SDI (Simple Digital Injection) for a programmable system that will work on any engine.

HTH
Malc
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Scaero

I am affraid you'll have to provide a translation for your advice. Regretably I only speak C900. Although I recognise a few words in 9000 I am a more primative species and am not able to achieve the same lap times around Goodwood

I presume you are refering to various evolutions of Direct Ignition. Unfortunately I am not familiar with how the 9000 / GM900 devloped. Would you kindly give me a history lesson.

Thanks, Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Malc

I am always up for a trip to Scotland My pocket map does not show Stonehaven, where is it near?

I would be interested in the engine, please could you give me some history, condition etc.

I'll check out the ignition systems. I had been thinking about Aldon, but I am reluctant to move away from a Saab system because of potential difficulties with setup / servicing.
 

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Hi Chris

Stonehaven is about 15 miles south of Aberdeen.

If you come up to see Malc, come and see me as I have about 7 c900 turbos breaking, did have more but 5 went to the scrap on Tuesday. I am only about 10 miles from Malc
 

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Originally posted by ChrisS:
[qb]What I believe I need is a C900 block (the TR sump will fit) and a 9000 2.3 SDI head, turbo & wiring loom.[/qb][/b]
I'm confused as to why the 9000 head would be a better fit? If the turbo location is a problem, the turbo and exhaust manifold from a 9000 should fit a C900 head without modification. In fact the engine in 2.0T 9000s up to '93 was identical to the C900T engine.

The only real problem I can see is the distributor and as Scaero says, a DI conversion might be just the job here. See this site for details. Go to "DIY" and click on "DI".

A more sophisticated solution is to fit the digital DI/APC system as David! has done in this (long) thread on UK Saabs.

The former solution is easier with the engine in place but relies on being able to source a 9000 turbo of one particular model year. If you're working on the engine out of the car (as you will be), I'd go for the DI/APC route and try to source the engine, turbo, manifolds and DI/APC system all from the same car. If you can get hold of a 9000 2.0 Carlsson with the red DI/APC, then so much the better for power output

The only downside of DI/APC is that it's not so easily DIY-tweakable for more power as the earlier analogue APC system. But if you can't even fit the engine in because of the distributor, your tuning options are even more limited
 

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Chris,
I bought the 1988 turbo with a blown head gasket, but the garage I got it from had tipped oil down the bores to stop corosion I have never done anything else to it since If you come up to see me and / or TfatC I am sure between us we could load you up with stuff...
In fact if there are a few folk from your part of the world who need stuff why not "pool" and rent a van!
Could I be causing trouble here
Malc
 

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why don't you put the rover/buick v8 in like some were fitted with,eg tr8, i had a go in one when i worked at the factory, went like a rocket and the v8 was a reliable engine, just need an uprated suspension
 

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If you're not changing the stock intercooler, which isn't very efficient, then using a 91-93 2.3 head is beneficial in reducing the likelihood of knock as it has a lower compression ratio
.

However finding one is another matter...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi Al

There are many reasons for doing this, if it can be done, but here are some: the first is because no one seems to have done it, the second is that when I go to Triumph events I nearly always end up talking for most of the event with another Saab enthusiast, third I want a decent engine in the car (not that the Rover is bad) and finally, it is easier for maintenance if all your cars have the same engine .....

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Malc and TfatC

Many thanks for your kind offer. That just shows the spirit of Saab people . I am in the process of preparing my Triumph for an endurance event in September in which I will have to do 3,000 miles around 10 countries in Europe in 72 hours. (one need for a Saab engine). I am having to concentrate on that for the moment, but I'll come back to you on your offer thanks very much.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi BillJ

The problems are: 1)Turbo location and 2) dizzy location.

Turbo location is the easier to solve and a 9000 manifold and some custom plumbing should fix that, but the dizzy is the more difficult and could be solved by 2 strategies: a) using Saab bits, B) using other OEM bits.

The dizzy is just plain in the wrong place It does not seem it could be put anywhere else and even a half size one would still be too big. So I think it will have to go, so we need dizzyless ignition. As Saab have refined their systems over many years I would be reluctant to throw that away that expertise, also using someone else's system would make the car unique and I would be unlikely to get advice from the unfranchised Saab chain that support me so well now.

So I think I am left with the question: how do I get Direct Ignition onto a 900 block. But you are telling me that some complete 9000 engines would suit my purpose. That's good news, but I would have to check the under bonnet clearance. I have seen a TR7 with a Pinto engine, so I presume a slanted block is not essential.

More later....

thanks, Chris
 

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Chris, the pre-'94 9000 2.0 engine is practically identical to the 900 engine. It's more-or-less the "canted-back" engine mounted in a slightly less-canted position in the 9000. There are some detail differences like the location of the cylinder drain plugs, but as far as I know, that's all.

However, if you want to mix-and-match, the only 9000 parts you need are the turbo/exhaust manifold and the blanking plate that covers the hole for the distributor.
 

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@ Chris

Hello from Switzerland - so I'm glad not to be the only cracy guy..this Saturday I took "my" Saab 900 16VTurbo engine out I took also the Wiring for the Engine and the Fuse Box out .. I'm since a 1 Year thinking to do the job -Yes TR7 Turbo powerd by Saab cool reliable engin from a very cool car!! Sade about it
:-( rustrust...

You can go 4 the 9000 Di Box and use an DI+APC (that means one Box each! - http://www.900aero.com/index.html here the dicription .. then use an 9000 Manifold an 2,3l Cyl. Head and a 902 Inletmanifold - is turnable the top.. I'm looking to make a new engine end Plate (a friend of mine, way not make 2) there are still to big question: 1) the position of the starter 2) Engine mounting - but if the OIlpane goes strait on it is easy - the Turbo would be bether turned around .. so let me know what's your poinst we can go 4 it I have lots of Infos

so let me know - Thanks to the Saab People [email protected]

Sorry came wrong

[edited to copy text from post in wrong thread]
 

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Hi again

The Size of the TR7 Oilpan gasket is 243mm x 476mm the Size of the Engine Block 901 is about the same so it could fit, just first check the Wholes ..

Next check the Clutch I'll get a TR7 Clutch alignment tool .. to check .. couple days .. then you can go for a Fidanza Aluflywheel.. ... the Starter position and the Inlet manifold (opens to the wrong side) are some Quiz ..

Take a 901 Water-Radiator not the 9000 the inlet is correct..

- Sorry about my english ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi Fuego

Sorry not to have replied sooner but I have just been taking the TR7 on the Club Triumph 10 Countries Run, including most Alpine countries, Col Iseran, Splugen, Stelvio and Nurburgring. Drove through CH at 02:00 Davos, Chur, Schaffhausen.

I need to get my 900i sorted for day to day driving and my 900S Aero fixed for 2 trackdays next month, then I will focus on the TR7 Turbo conversion. One thing I do know is that the TR7 oil sump will fit the underside of the 900 engine, but not all of the screw holes line up. However custom sumps should not be too expensive or it is not expensive to drill/fill holes.

There is another guy in CH thinking about a TR7 Turbo. Try www.forum.triumphtr7.com. He goes under the name of Frankman, in TR7 Variants.
 

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Hello Chris .. Thanks for replay ... so you drove thru Switzerland an not passing by :) I live close to the lake Constance on the Border to Austria when you came down from Chur or Davos thru the Rhein Valley so you passed my Village .. it's just on the Freeway .. A13

So, Yes I have my Saab 900Turbo 16V Engine from a rusty Heuschmid (sad was a cool car I liked it) I organized a 9000 manifold and now I'm looking for a drawing from the engine rear end plate or make a new drawing, also from the TR7 plate to make the measurement for the position of the starter (still a problem on the exhaust side "TR original" is the Turbo an it is not much space ont the Inlet- side "original SAAB" is no space in the TR Bellhousing that means to cut of a piece.. the Inlet Manifold from 901 is looking to the wrong side .. the 9000 coult be taken a part so possible or make a new one with some 9000 parts.. I have wiring from the 901 and some of the 9000 also the fuel pump and watercooler, I was able to become fits a 78 cm of wide intercooler of which before that water cooler mounted with 90° connections this exactly between the front sheet metals under the front panel

The Fleewheel Bearing from the Saab input shaft is 35mm out x 15mm in (SKF 1726202-2RS1) TR is about 12mm in and the is a fitting type could be (fafnir 301k or SKF 6301-2RS) ..

so the main problem like I sad is the rear end plate and the Starter.. If you know more about the DI or EKZ what to take let me know .. If I'll laser a new plate it would be easy to do more .. to brains work bether the one.. I have a lot mor questions but my enlish is not as well - Gree from Switzerland
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi Fuego

Thanks for your reply

I am having a little difficulty with some of the things you wrote.
901=900 16v Turbo engine?

My 2 Saabs will be fully functional next week, then I must clear my garage to make space for this project. Then I intend to get a non operational engine from each car, a TR7 bell housing and sump. I can get these engines from Robsports and Two-Stroke to Turbo.

RevingtonTR have offered me a scrap TR7 to trial fit a turbo engine into. My target is to have a non operational trial turbo to fit for May next year.

You will find a very good range of TR7 drawings in the Rimmer catalogue, just type Rimmer into Google. I am sure you can get them to send you a free one.

The problem areas I have identified are:

Turbo location (9000 ? )
Distributor location (9000 DI head or Webcon DI?)
Radiator / Intercooler sizing and location (900 turbo & Volvo 740?)
Converting to electric fuel pump (not too difficult)
Locating the wiring loom (There is plenty of space)

Areas I have not yet considered are:

Gearbox monting (block should be similar)
Pipes for the cooling system (Thermostat same end as dizzy)
Exhaust (Need to be custom know suppl)

While I have given this plenty of high level thought it needs to have solutions in detail. I have not thought at the detail level yet. That is a good idea to share development costs over more than 1 copy of a part. Some things may be cheaper in CH. I have just made up a wind deflector for my TR7DHC from laser cut polycarbonate and hot bending, very effective too.

I'll let you know when I have got my engines.

Chris
 
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