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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just when I think I made my mind for Maptun, new experiences come for BSR and I get confused with every new posting. For me why I think Maptun is some member comments who had both and Maptun's being only committed to Saab while BSR is becoming generalist looking at their vehicle range offerings on their official site www.bsrab.se . As some of you already stated in previous threads, personal experiences is the best to consider. So those who already have this know-how, please share your results. I hope we will be able to get results on not just how it felt but if you have specific data for before/after comparisons as speeding at different speed intervals at different gear levels, dynocharts etc. Of course we would like to know if any upgrade caused a technical problem or bad milages if you were able to press the right food at same levels to see the difference


Please keep the experiences only to T7 as it is obviously quite different to T5 as I understand.

I could think of below points to consider but I am sure experts will be able to add some other important points to also list.

Information to List:
Vehicle Details: Model, Year, Transmission
ECU upgrade brand and stage: Why have you preferred that company? Are you able to compare them with another ECU upgrade experience on the same car?
Hardware changes: Please state if it is the standart hardware offered by the tuning company for the ECU upgrade level above. If you have done custom changes to hardware, please also inform why you have preferred that brand, impact on performance and current quality after usaging XX kms/miles.
Performance Improvements (I will list KMH but please list whatever corresponds in miles). Some speed intervals are normally tested in standart gears but I think there's not such a think for automatic. Please state how these :
Power Gain (HP & NM @ what rev?)Standart, tuner's information on new power levels, your own dyno results if any.
Speeding (before/after):
0-100:
0-200:
60-100:
80-120:
100-150:
Drivability: How is the feel on
driving at low/mid/high revs? How is the feel in crowded city driving? Would someone used to the stock car have problems on controlling the car on normal/rainy/snowy/icy days?

What future mods do you plan?: What part? What brand? Why?

These are the ones I can think of. If there would be a wide contribution, it will be a very good reference for all people trying to decide. Please keep the posts relevent only to this topic

Thanks to all to contribute their experiences


Stay tuned
Tufan
 

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Honestly if you are only going stage 1, either will do just fine. If you plan to go to a higher stage of tune, then it becomes much more important to research each fully. But at this point you can not really go wrong with either.

Maptun will have a smoother torque curve while BSR will have a higher peak torque.

I have heard of 2 instances of bad programming with Maptun ECU's and 0 instances of bad programming with BSR although some have reported the PPC to freeze during loading. I bet this has something to do with not removing the proper fuses as outlined in the instructions. I had no problems loading mine.

BSR is more available but you will have an easier time working direct with Maptun should problems arise.

BSR stage 1 has also caused some vehicles to run lean while I have not heard the same about Maptun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I was really hoping this topic to be a reference point for so many others but unfortunately contributions has been very low . Thanks to those who bothered to reply
. I was actually expecting some more answers to what I have listed in the questionary list but looking at overall result, I must be really grateful for even this coverage.
 

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I was also expecting, that there would be more replies on this forum. I think it's interesting to see the differences between the tuners. By the way, Nordic has a very good Site with a lot of acceleration films. What about the others...?
 

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the simple truth is that there is not a lot of people that have gone the extra mile in modyfying their t7's on this board
Most of the mad ones are still on t5's...and they are still trying to make them work (Well I am !!)
I guess in a few years it will accelerate as these become more "Available "
 

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I have a 9-5 2.0 SE which has the benefit of Maptun Stage 2 upgrades.

The early 9-5's have two options from Maptun, standard injectors or larger ones, I began with a stage one on standard injectors (I already had a 2.5" BSTR cat back exhaust, sports filter and aero intake pipe)

The differnece was very good but not staggering, so I quickly moved to a full Stage 1 with the larger injectors,(equivalent to a Stage 1 on a later 9-5) the difference then was phenominal! I then went for the Stage 2 just to be greedy!(230 bhp)

Why Maptun, well I spoke / emailled all the main providers and asked about my auto box in particular, the best answers (in my opinion) came from Maptun, I wanted smooth rather than kick. I had also discussed this with another 9-5 owner who was changing his Speedparts stage 2 for a Maptun Stage 2.

The power is deceptive, my wife took absolutely months to even notice, but one day she stamped on the go pedal, and went........very quickly, so I would say it is easily managed power, I had no problem in the snow last winter.

I also decided to go with Maptun becuase of future upgrades, a remap is much cheaper than new ECU's, I do plan to move to stage three which means a 3" down pipe, race/sport cat and a re map......another 10bhp.......one day!

I have no performace figures only that being humilated by a BMW 318 prompted the initial upgrade, and a very upset TVR driver confirmed that it had worked.

I hope that helps, Chris
 

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I am of similar mind to turkish, in that i am looking to upgrade the power in the future, but i really want to know as much as possible about how the extra power is achieved and where it is apparent, any slightly negative consequences of the upgrade etc etc.
Actually im very happy with the standard power at present and my ideal improvement would mirror and slightly "up" existing performance curve and just add a little more oomph at the higher revs .
Also it would need a little growl from exhaust as these high revs are reached

From whats available at present, i think i will have to save up and go for a hirsh or a stage 3 from maptun / nordic / others.
I love this engine and i need to know exactly the effects of any changes in
 

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I'm aware of at least two other T7 cars that have been fairly heavily modified.

Vigge's Viggen and Philips' Viggen Cabrio.. both I believe make around the 280hp mark.

I'm sure they will be along to let you know their experiences. I believe Vigge switched from BSR to Maptun and Philip went the custom map route with Hirsch. Also I know that Philip's friend has a 9-5 which has been breathed on by Nordic.

I know Philip is quite busy right now to post on Saabscene, since he also runs a very successful German speaking car web site, his own business and was serving his country recently in Bosnia...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have heard of 2 instances of bad programming with Maptun ECU's and 0 instances of bad programming with BSR[/b]
XAAMOTTOMAAX (from now on for me Mr. X if it's OK with you space),
Can you share those 2 incidences? Could it be some hardware not listed on Maptun's related stage?

Chris,
Thanks for the detailed information, the more we have such sharings in detail, the better we will benefit from this forum.

The differnece was very good but not staggering, so I quickly moved to a full Stage 1 with the larger injectors,(equivalent to a Stage 1 on a later 9-5)[/b]
What I understand is that I don't need any large injectors for my Aero 2001, right?

I see you had worries for autobox but 230HP is already the standart for 2001 so it shouldn't be problem. I donno id the NM is similar there. But as I am looking for my Aero an 280HP level, I wonder how the NM levels will be? There are different replies around and I am confused. But still didn't hear a autobox issue due to upgrade.

My experience by means of communication is very similar to yours. I contacted Maptun in UK and Julian sent me the most detailed information and I should also add that Hirsch was the only company that even called me. But to add as well, the gentleman who called was a Turkish lad and we had some nice chat. That didn't help the prices though I contacted BSR as well and they replied to every additional question but the problem was with the English I guess and instead of giving all possible answer at once, I had to ask all of them one by one. I am sure they are also nice guys but my heart is near Maptun and Hirsch. I am quite curious about the new exhaust development of Maptun as well. So I am waiting for the possible new packages with new exhaust. I never contacted Nordic so an international experience will be nice. The only experience I heard is that the Saab dealer in my hometown had a Nordic tuned Viggen (probably that was prior to Hirsch agreement) and his piston melted. I will contact him soon to understand the backgorunds in few weeks.

One more thing I would like to have an idea is how to measure 60-100 and 80-120 performance on an automatic. I notice the tests mention that the test is done at 4th, 5th etc. Once I kickdown, auto selects the lowest possible so it is not possible to compare to a manual then. Also do you kick down while stable at 60 or do you kick down at a lower speed like 30? I would like to compare manual and automatic at most powerful gears for these speeds at an interval of 60 to 200 (say 60-100, 80-120, 100-150, 60-200, 100-200, I mean all intervals a manual or upgraded can list is what I can compare with mine.)

With standart Aero Autobox 230 HP my results:
60-100: 4.4 sec
80-120: 4.7 sec
9-5 Aero, what year is your car? It is a manual as I understand from your tests. From your results I see that 60-100 is similar at Auto and Manual but 80-120 is a little less. I think that's due to gear change in between. (I need to check at what speed actually the autobox swithces from 2nd to 3rd at
on S button).
 

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Originally posted by Maarten (900 Hirsch):
[qb]Hanm's got a Hirsch stage 3 Viggen with Hirsch intakepipe, intercooler, exhaust, suspension, etc.
Maybe he will chime in soon. [/qb][/b]
Hi,

Indeed the list Maarten was mentioning is on my car and to summarize my experience with it: Really really satisfied


Although I haven't made any measurements on a dyno or on acceleration times, I'm quite confident that the results are at least close to what Hirsch is promising:
280 BHP / 400 Nm / 0-100:5.9s / Vmax:260 (Have driven it up to 240, acceleration is then still very noticable
/ 0-200:20.5s / 6-100 in 4th:4.3s / 80-120 in 5th:5.9s.

At the moment I'm not planning any further mods, at least not with respect to the engine. Maybe next spring I might upgrade the brakes to Hirsch as well.

Best regards,

Hanm
 

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So the forum is alive! My car is a 2000' manual and that's the way that i have done the measures: at 50Km/h accelerating and at 60km/h i start the stop watch (for 60-100 for example). I know it's not vey accurate but i get an idea and i am very close to the official measures of car magazines.
I hope this helps a little bit.
 

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Hi Turkish Airlines,

I would have spoken earlier but as I’m not a hands on up-grader I’m more of a “Pay somebody” up-grader but I’m happy to share my experiences with you and others.

I presently owns 2 9-5s, one an auto (00) running stage 4 speed parts & as of today a 03 9-5 aero running Hirsch step 2 upgrade with full Hirsch body kit
(I can not comment to much on the latter as I have not driven it since the upgrade but collect it from Reading Saab on Thursday and no I can not wait.

OK 9-5 2.0ltr auto (Flying machine) I started off with the speed parts stg 1 which was a great improvement from the standard 150 bhp to 225 bhp (This was tested on a rolling road with a number of other members of this board attending) then I had fitted the full iebach pro suspension then a JT 3” exhaust fitted including the 3” down pipe this made the car a lot more positive again in the mid range. Then to complete the set up due to the turbo releasing blue smoke on start up I went for the stg 4 upgrade which included a new up rated turbo, new injectors, and aero inlet pipe (All works carried out West midlands Saab and they did an excellent job.
Even though this car is an auto it can spin its wheels on kick down as well as acceleration.
Problems with the upgrade apart (from the severe increase in insurance) I have a little “pinking” in really hot weather unless I add some octane boosting additives but in the present climate of damp it is unbelievable.

I can compete with most other vechiles on the road and due to the nature of the speedparts you do feel the kick in the back when you push the pedal down (but never to break the speed limits
) I will try to do some time testing tomorrow and will post them as soon as.

There is another Saab scene gent with a full stage 4 and his is on a manual 2.0 9-5 and he is a lot more technical than I.

If you have any further questions please ask and I will answer as best as I can

Regards

John
 

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Originally posted by JohnM:
[qb]As of today a 03 9-5 aero running Hirsch step 2 upgrade with full Hirsch body kit    :fawlty:        :fawlty:     (I can not comment to much on the latter as I have not driven it since the upgrade         but collect it from Reading Saab on Thursday and no I can not wait.[/qb][/b]
I'm drooling, waiting must be like a kid on Xmas eve John

280 HP / 400 Nm
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Originally posted by JohnM:
As of today a 03 9-5 aero running Hirsch step 2 upgrade with full Hirsch body kit   (I can not comment to much on the latter as I have not driven it since the upgrade  but collect it from Reading Saab on Thursday and no I can not wait.[/b]
Oh, that's so cool to have a Hirsched Aero. Was the car already packed or have you asked for the upgrades? Please share your experience with us later.

Originally posted by HanM:
Although I haven't made any measurements on a dyno or on acceleration times, I'm quite confident that the results are at least close to what Hirsch is promising:
280 BHP / 400 Nm / 0-100:5.9s / Vmax:260 (Have driven it up to 240, acceleration is then still very noticable  / 0-200:20.5s / 6-100 in 4th:4.3s / 80-120 in 5th:5.9s.[/b]
Your 0-100 is below 6.0 which is great. This is better then Hirsched Stage 2 9-5 aero. 0-200 is also about 2 seconds better. Data available at below link:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/172491...173043927AMDosJ

Originally posted by 9-5 Aero:
So the forum is alive! My car is a 2000' manual and that's the way that i have done the measures: at 50Km/h accelerating and at 60km/h i start the stop watch (for 60-100 for example).  [/b]
Yes, I am glad it is live again. I measured the intervals as you did by starting acceleration at lower speeds and did it few times and took the average. But I am hoping if an expert can tell if this is actualy how the test magazines do it. Also is there any special way of testing for an Autobox.

Today I received a mail from a very nice Swedish gentleman sharing his view from where our Swedish princess is born. He also mentioned interesting things in favor of Nordic. I invited him to share his views over here. I hope we'll meet him soon.
 

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Originally posted by FlyingScotsman:
[qb]I'm aware of at least two other T7 cars that have been fairly heavily modified.

Vigge's Viggen and Philips' Viggen Cabrio.. both I believe make around the 280hp mark.

I'm sure they will be along to let you know their experiences. I believe Vigge switched from BSR to Maptun and Philip went the custom map route with Hirsch. Also I know that Philip's friend has a 9-5 which has been breathed on by Nordic.

I know Philip is quite busy right now to post on Saabscene, since he also runs a very successful German speaking car web site, his own business and was serving his country recently in Bosnia... [/qb][/b]
The info about my viggen and also Philips car can be found on this board, so use search
Some info about my car can also be found on Maptuns site.
My viggen

Accorind to speedometer
80-120 3.0s
80-120 3. gear
100-150 4.15s
 
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