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I just wish all the cars on summer tyres (esp 4wd) would simply stay off the roads and leave me to make reasonable progress... :mad:[/b]
Agreed! Especially the ones sitting there spinning their wheels polishing the ice even further for the next driver to enjoy :mad: .

I've now got some Continental WinterContact TS830 tyres on order. I read a review of winter tyres in Swedish magazine 'Motor' (published by the major Swedish motoring organisation). Of the continental-type M+S winter tyres only those stood out as any good. They even came out better than several nordic-type winter tyres (but not studded ones). The review didn't include the Vredestein tyres unfortunately.

I ordered them from mytyres.co.uk and hope they'll turn up by the weekend (can't wait). Knowing my luck they'll turn up as the last of the snow disappears :rolleyes: . I've arranged fitting by my local tyre fitter who couldn't get hold of the tyres at all.

Regarding making winter tyres mandatory, I wouldn't be against that at all. Mind you, you'd still get the idiots who would then think they can drive as if it was dry doing stupid things. You still need to give icy roads respect.
 

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IMHO, I think there is a case for making winter tyres mandatory in the UK when I see so many people drive so dangerously on wet weather/summer tyres.

What do you winter tyre users think?

What do you summer tyre users think??

Regards,
Mark[/b]
I agree. People just don't realise how much better winter tyres are when conditions are bad, even just wet, until they've used them. As someone else pointed out, they aren't even an additional expense except the first time - you're just wearing different rubber for some of the time so it all lasts longer.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Dear Mods

Think at some stage this thread should be pinned simply as describing the virtues and safety aspects of winter tyres......don't think there's been any negatives voiced by anyone who actually uses winter tyres

Regards
Mark
 

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Sod the winter tyres.

Just put my 02 Aero auto in winter mode and have been out playing on some hilly roads that are covered in sheet ice. No other cars were getting anywhere.

Absolutely fantastic!![/b]
My 03 Aero with 300bhp Maptun etc Auto was the same, flappy paddle allows you to pull away in 1st, 2nd and 3rd while giving you engine braking to slow down, best Auto for snow driving I have ever owned even with 235 45 18 tyres and wheels on it....... much better than the trip I had in my wifes 04 9-3ss 1.8t manual with 225 45 17 tyres and wheels which she managed to slam sideways into the curb just behind me leaving home for work on Thursday morning!!!
 

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I'd love to have a set of winter tyres for my Aero, but the cost of an extra set of rims is hard to swallow. My wife has all season tyres on her X-trail, which have been great the last few weeks - though definitely not as good as proper winter tyres.[/b]
I have Vredestein Wintrac Extreme on my 2.8 Aero wagon, very secure feeling and I'm extermely glad to have them. I don't have a spare set of rims and just have the local garage swap summer to winter tyres over at 10pounds a corner it will take 4 - 5 years for even second hand rims to pay for themselves.
Living in the North of the UK I can see a point in making winter tyres mandatory locally - might be something the Scottish Government will do - but further South I'm not so sure. People just need to use that all too rare commodity, common sense, and drive to the road conditions and their level of grip.
 

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I have 17" wheels on my 07 9-3 TiD convertible and want to to get a 2nd set for putting winter tyres on.

I have found another cheap set of wheels but they are also 17's, so can I check that the winter tyre size recommended for OEM 17" wheels is 205,50/17 93 Q? My current tyres are 225 45 R17 94W extra load rated. Sorry for the questions but my tech knowledge is useless on wheels and tyres and i dont want to end up spending on tyres that dont fit ;)
 

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You may struggle to get a 17 inch tyre less than H rated. The recommended winter tyre size on the 9-3 with 17 inch wheels (apart from the 2.8 engine) is still 225/45 17 but in 94Q Extra Load rating. But anything higher than Q rating (100mph) will do. H is 130 mph.

I'm currently running W rated 18 inch tyres on my 9-5. They work fine in snow. Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme.

 

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You may struggle to get a 17 inch tyre less than H rated. The recommended winter tyre size on the 9-3 is still 225/45 17 but in 94Q Extra Load rating. But anything higher than Q rating (100mph) will do. H is 130 mph.

I'm currently running W rated 18 inch tyres on my 9-5. They work fine in snow. Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme.[/b]
thanks - thats very helpful

thats actually better then, as there are much cheaper Hankook winter tyres in that size.

I just found these on mytyres, and my trusted local indep tyre fitter recommended Hankook winters IIRC, and runs them on his own van I saw today. He just cant get any more until next summer now though as they are sold out EVERYWHERE! At £100 a corner delivered they look just what I need. My road has been impossible to get out of for 5 weeks in the last 12 months, during every snow/ice spell we've had so I hope these will help with that as well as general cold weather safety.
 

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Back in early November '09 I ordered 4 Nokian WR G2 XL in 225/45 R17 94V for my 2008 9-3 Sportwagon (Tid 150).
I got them from Pneus Online for £445.16 delivered to the door, The local Kwik-fit fitted & balanced them for £8 each on the car's 17" rims.
At first they seemed to make the steering feel lighter and twitchier, possibly because of the high number of flexible blocks that make up the tread.
They also made the steering shake & vibrate until they were balanced a second time, I had read on other forums that some of these winter tyres could be a little more difficult to balance but I don't know why. I don't mind now because they are fine.
Through the snow we've had here in Central Scotland they have been fantastic, a pleasure to drive on!
I've taken the car on all the local untreated back roads and to the steepest hills we have around here and it can pull away no problem.
Sometimes there's the initial wheelspin until you get the clutch out but then you can reduce the revs, get a bite and away you go.
Engine braking was also impressive, I expected less control but the grip really is good.
Steep downhill braking gave the ABS a real workout but the car was brought to a halt quickly with plenty of directional control.
I really gave these tyres a hard time and I'm very impressed, they are definitely worth the money spent.
I'm planning to leave them on the car to see how they wear, I know they will not perform as well as summer tyres when things warm up but I'm not a hard or fast driver.
I believe these Nokian tyres are sold in Canada as all season tyres and their summers can't be much different from ours? please correct me if you know otherwise.
 

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If you were unfortunate enough to have an accident in the summer and your tyres were checked, you insurance would technically be invalid. Also, the softer compunds of winter tyres wear at a much higher rate when it gets warmer. I wouldn't leave them on.
 

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Why "Technically invalid", what do you mean by this statement?
The tyres are marked as "Mud and snow", not "for winter use only", as long as they have legal tread and appropriate certification for use on UK roads they will be legal.
If they were found to be contributory to an accident, ie. extended stopping distance then insurers would treat that in a similar manner to a car that had poor condition brakes, but they would not be able to declare insurance invalid.
 

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I'm not saying the tyres won't be legal. What I'm saying is that winter tyres, fitted during the summer, do not meet the manufacturers original specification. The standard speed rating for summer/all season tyres on a 9-3ss is W.

Tyres heat up as you drive. A lower speed rating tyre will heat up quicker and become softer overall, and thus have less control. Winter tyres have softer compounds and generally less stiff construction to allow them to adapt and grip. In part they can do this because of the lower road and thus ultimately tyre temperatures. However in the summer they become too soft and their handling characteristics at speed can be compromised. I run alternate winter and summer tyres on my 9-5 (V rated) and the difference in handling is quite marked- much less precise with the winters on.

The bottom line is that during the winter your are allowed to fit lower thatn normal speed rated tyres because of the trade off benefits. However in Summer they are simply tyres that do not have adequate speed rating. The car, at his point, has been modified from the manufacturers orignal specifications. An insurance investigator could pick up on this.

So, even if you don't think the insurance argument is valid, the saftey argument for not using winter tyres in the summmer is just as strong for using them in the winter. Use the correct tyre for the prevaling conditions.
 

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What if conditions are regularly towing a caravan in and out of temporary camp sites run for club events?
During the several months of the year I regularly undertake these and I'm certain M&S (take note it's Mud and Snow, not winter) rated tyres are better than the manufacturers recommended ones.
If you've ever tried to get out of an event you'll know that the entry/exit gets chewed up and muddy, the original tyres couldn't get traction, I've already towed out of a muddy gate once this year and it's much better.
It's horses for courses, I'm looking for a set-up that's best for me and suits my use and lifestyle, if i find it doesn't work I'll change it.
You could take this sort of discussion to really silly levels and state that fitting any other part than that supplied by the manufacturer is changing the cars specification from that of the manufacturer and therefore be detrimental to handling, safety, performance etc.
Where does that put the majority of cars on the public roads?
 

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I think you really need to understand a bit more about tyre technology. There are M&S tyres that are not winter tyres (i.e. designed for cold condition use), but have an aggressive tread pattern to aid grip on poor surfaces. The downside of the aggressive pattern is less overall rubber in contact with the road. A winter tyre, like the WR2, has the snowflake & mountain symbol on it and has compounds, not just tread, designed to maximise grip on snowy/icy surfaces. They also work well on muddy surfaces, but probably not as well as a non-winter M&S.

It's not taking anything to a silly level. The manufacturers specify certain ratings for tyres- for good reasons. I'm simpy pointing out the potential problems of choosing to ignore their specifications. The majority of cars on the roads will have correctly rated tyres.
 

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I did quite a bit of research before buying these tyres, I was fully aware that they had a lower speed rating, V instead of W.
I was also well aware that tyre performance changes under differing conditions and temperatures, summer and winter, a major factor involved in choosing to try these tyres, WR G2 not the WR2 you mention in your reply.
Tyre Loads and Speed Ratings are covered by Regulation 25 of the Construction & Use Regulations.
They are a bit long winded but essentially it must be ensured that the tyres fitted to a vehicle are capable of operating to the loads and speeds that the vehicle will be subjecting the tyres to.
The driver of a vehicle should check to see that the tyres are capable of carrying the loads and dealing with the speeds that the vehicle will be doing.
If the tyres are found to be unsuitable, then the driver is responsible.
I don't know of any regulation that states we are obliged by law to fit exactly the same speed rated tyre that the manufacturer specified, I know that ideally I would have done this but you don't get Nokian WR G2 in W speed ratings this size.
Since the UK enforces a 70mph speed limit I'm satisfied they are fine.

I fully understand the points you make and these were all something I weighed up before choosing these tyres, believe me I thought long and hard about it. I only made the post today to give my opinion on the tyres, after all it's what the forum is for is it not?

Regards,

Kev.
 

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Yes, indeed discussion is what it's about. You said you were going to leave them on for the summer. I advised against that for two reasons, and you don't seem to accept either of them. Fair enough, that's your prerogative :). I don't believe your logic and thought process is sound, but that's my prerogative too.

For everyone else, here is a quote from the Nokian website:

QUOTE(Nokian Website)
This is not to say however that friction tyres are recommended for year round use, as these tyres are primarily winter tyres with characteristics suited to winter conditions. In warmer conditions friction tyres wear rapidly, and as the rubber compound softens their performance becomes impaired.[/b]
 
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