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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, following a loooong drive with smoke billowing from the car on decceleration, I have confirmation that my turbo has gone (technical term).

Been quoted £450 for a Garrett hybrid, £250 for a standard unit or £150 for a second-hand one (fitted).

Guess which one I'm getting?

Seems my decision to sell the car or not has been made. At the next meet I should be driving an immaculate '83 900GLi 5dr, hopefully a smoke free one.

John.
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'86 9000t16
 

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Can somebody tell me what a hybrid replacement turbo is? I have a vague idea....what is the advantage of putting one of these on, rather than just increasing the turbo size (which for my carlsson would be putting an aero turbo on)?
Cost difference?Performance difference?
 

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Originally posted by paulmanchester:
[qb]Can somebody tell me what a hybrid replacement turbo is? I have a vague idea....what is the advantage of putting one of these on, rather than just increasing the turbo size (which for my carlsson would be putting an aero turbo on)?
Cost difference?Performance difference? [/qb][/b]
Funnily enough, I asked the same question some time ago, Hybrid Turbo thread.
 

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Originally posted by WelshWizard:
[qb]John

Should have stuck with the 99          [/qb][/b]
He should have done, WW. It was a really nice motor once he had got the seat base repair kit and the centre dash console in. Would have looked great with carbon-fibre effect fablon, too

jnevillea can attest to the good condition of the motor.

Sorry to hear about the bad news with the 9000, John
 

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OOOOH, turbos.... great fun to play with when you know what you're doing... Don't go near secondhand unless your a gambler! Beware of some suposed well known turbo specialists i have seen some of their bodge-ups. highly dodgy! I have only found 1 trusted turbo specialist which i would be happy to put you in touch with. I have fitted various turbos from him, all hybrids and not had any trouble. with regards which turbo to fit, well here lies the million dollar question!!
if you have a t3 or mitsi equivalent you are best to stay with t3 hybrid ( cossie compressor wheel and housing + 360 degree thrust bearing ) bit laggie but huge top end capabilities ( 1.6 bar up to 5500 ish )
I have converted my old T3 car to a T25 which is smaller but comes in a lot earlier ( usable from 2300 rpm ) and holds nearly aswell as a T3.
T28 is possible ( from nissan skyline ) does work well.
T34 is also possible ( escort 4x4 cossie turbo) but you need cossie pistons and special engine management!!!!! 1.8 bar available here.... if you dare....
any questions please ask.....
 

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The T25's are standard on the non-Aero 2.3T's. Mine has that and does develop A LOT of boost, I don't have a calibrated boost gauge so I can't put a figure on it. Put it this way, I'm getting the needle a good 4mm off the top of red between 2000 to 3250rpm
this is on a what I have been "assured" is a standard DI and APC.

I'm upgrading to a larger, roller bearing unit next year (finances allowing) as the T25 runs out of puff at around 4000rpm imho. Sure, you get LOADS of low end torque with the T25 but that's not particularly conducive to long-lived transmission components ... or tyres for that matter.
 

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I agree that £150 for a secondhand unit might be a bit too much of a gamble when you can get a rebuild for £250 (to what standard? Figure sounds a bit low to me) from the same source.
But back when I was still at university, it was a case of £100 for a secondhand unit or £400 for a rebuilt one, in which case I deemed the risk worth taking - not that I actually had £400 mind...
You can get the odds a bit more in your favour when you take a little care of selecting a second hand replacement. Once, I got one off an '88 9000T w/automatic gearbox (of course, the )(*&^ dismantlers sent me a stone age unit from an '81 900 instead of the one I agreed on, so after a lot of phone calls and bickering I came to get it myself - it still was on the engine and the dismantler apparently couldn't be bothered to unbolt it, even though that was part of the deal. Anyways, being watercooled and on an automatic, I reckoned it stood a good chance of having survived the driving of the owner of the car it was in, and it proved to be. The 'brand new' rebuilt one from Gasparatos that I replaced it with (he said it was a slightly bigger one, but it turned out to be a factory standard 900T16 unit) was actually worse for vertical play in the bearings...
 

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Well if we are just helping john, i strongly suggest avoidance of a secondhand unit, and to go for a unit from my contact, who will with a phone call from me do a good deal as i put a bit of business his way... i gave him a donor turbo last time and he did me a 2.3 T25 hybrid (360 etc ) ( as on my car ) for £300.
I could probably get a recon standard 2.0 t25 for around £230. And this guy is the best. he can do turbos for cars in this country that nobody else can.
re- roller-bearing turbos, usually deemed a complete waste of time and money ......
I take my car to track days where it gets a serious hammering, and with a properly built turbo roller bearings are un-necessary. ( £1000)
Don't make the essex boy mistake and go for a turbo too large because without the management and fuel going in you wont have the exhaust gas to spin it up.
If you want to lose the wheel spin, buy a boost controller, or go for a t3, but be aware you may not be able to correct oversteer quick enough because of the lag from a t3. I would recommend half way... i.e T28 ( effectively t25 exhaust housing and turbine with a T3 comp wheel and housing )
this is a minefield, and i don't have all the answers but i have done a lot of research on this and experimented with different turbos etc... BE CAREFUL.... if you are going to crank up the boost on a standard car with miles on it, expect the turbo to let go.
Did you say you still have the APC connected on the 2.3T Mr torque steer????????? that is probably why the boost is dropping off so badly at 4000rpm.......
are you running a bleed valve or have you gone to actuator only ???
my car is only a 2.0, and i am holding descent boost way past 4000.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok, after being made redundant Monday morning and spending the last 2 days job hunting, it's definitely going to be the second-hand unit now!


As for the man fitting it, he's worked on my car before I owned it and I trust him implicitly. The fact that it's a second hand unit doesnt bother me as I plan to sell the vehicle ASAP (NOT to a fellow saab enthusiast but to the general public, sounds harsh but hey, I cant afford the insurance anymore and can get hold of a tidy 900i anyway.)

If I was keeping the car and circumstances were different then it'd be the Hybrid unit as the car's gearbox was rebuilt and master cylinder replaced recently. C'est la vie...


Your comiserations and good wishes are much appreciated.

John.

ps. contact details for the gent doing the work are to be found in the Reccomendations forum under "Dorset Saab Specialist" I think. If not, contact me direct.
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John,

Sorry to hear your bad news, I too am in Bournemouth and waiting for today's redundancy announcements, so there may be another 9000 on the market.

As for John Saab I've used him for the last 6 years and trust him totally. If money was tight I'd take a second hand turbo from John without hesitation.
 

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I also have a 2.0L (blk 4 dr early 90 Carlsson)which has a massive power spike from 3250 rpm all the way through to 6000 rpm without dropping off. The boost needle goes pretty much to the end of the red which I've been told is apprx 1 bar?

The only problem is that I have loads of lag followed by copious amounts of wheel spin, which could potentially cause me to be embarrassed by a much lesser car!

If I'm understanding the post properly....

T3 = Massive lag but mad from 3000rpm on

T25 = Very little lag and strong from 2250rpm on
T28 = An effective compromise?

From the sounds of it I must have a T3 or something similar?

Does anyone know what turbo should have been on my car as standard? It's an early 90 so was not affected by the power drop suffered by later 90 Carlssons (as far as I'm aware?) Ie. no cat etc......
 

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John - just spotted your bad news It really has not been your week with this and the turbo I am really sorry to hear about this and hope that you get something sorted out soon. Good luck, John!
 

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90 blk carly could have anything on it....!! have a look at the turbo... if there is a giant stainless exhaust clamp holding it together, it is a mitsubishi, and probably a te05
if there are a load of bolts holding the compressor housing to the bearing housing then it is a garrett T3
If there is a giant circlip holding the compressor housing together then it is a Garrett T25
I hope that helps you identify it!
guages: if you have the standard guage that has a solid orange and red section ( not graduated then the end of the red is approx 1.4 bar, but these guages differ 1 car to the next.... buy a proper guage! You might be achieveing 1.3 bar, therefore i guess you have disconnected the APC
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks again to all wellwishers, it has been a difficult week what with one thing and another.
Having to delay the work on the turbo 'til I recieve my final paycheck so it's 'on the buses' for me. And what an eye-opener that is for any long time car driver! Especially when it's freezing outside...


It'll take more than this to bring me down I tell ya...!

John.
 
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