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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all, my first 'proper' post & a problem that, hopefully with some good advice, I can sort out :)

There was a post I read on this site dating back about 5 years ago that described the same symptoms that I'm having, but the topic finished without a resolution to the problem...hence the reason for me starting this thread.

I own a 2005 9-5 2.2 diesel Auto saloon & the reverse lights have stopped working, but not only the reverse lights. When selecting reverse I also lose power to windows, wipers, indicators, cigar lighter & front fog lamps...there could also be a couple more things that I haven't realised yet. Removing the reversing light fuse (No 2 instrument panel drivers side) restores all the functions apart from (obviously) the reversing lights.
The boot wiring is fine as I replaced it all about a year ago after finding it all cracked & broken....& I have checked the boot wiring multiplug in the rear quarter panel & there is no voltage going to it.

I don't have Tech II, but I do have Delpi DS-150E installed on my laptop which pretty much scans the whole car (engine, transmission, airbags, climate control, ABS, TCS, multifunction switches, DICE & TWICE) & I'm not getting any codes that relate to the problem with the reversing lights.

I have swapped the purple ignition relay under the dash for both the other purple relays in the box & have also checked every single fuse (instrument panel & engine fuse boxes), but no joy.

Usually, my first port of call would have been the reverse switch on the transmission, but from what I've read, it is integrated into the selector mechanism on the auto...so not simply replaceable. But seeing as a diagnostic doesn't come up with any transmission fault codes & the reverse select is illuminated on the dash, I'm assuming that the reverse switch is working fine ?

Also, car has a brand new Varta 780A battery.

Sorry for the really long first post, but I thought I'd put in everything I've done so far :)
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Another fault occured tonight.......put it in drive & it took a good couple of seconds to select, but at the same time the SID started 'binging', all warning lights on the dash were lit up & the actual dash illumination was coming & going like I was rolling the dash dimmer up & down a few times...I went to pull away & it was as if the car was in 3rd gear.....then the car stalled :confused:

Restarted the car & everything was fine again, so I'm thinking a dodgy earth somewhere. Hopefully, this will have logged a fault code when I plug it in tomorrow & hopefully this is related to the reverse light problem.

Before anyone suggests a transmission fault (regarding gear selection)....I replaced the auto-box valve body with a brand new one just a year ago. The oil level is fine, if a little brown, but seeing as this car has no auto-box filter, then it's what I would expect...but it still smells good :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Turns out the second fault was nothing to do with the reversing light problem. Diagnostic scan brought up code 'P0102 - MAF sensor circuit low input'. I pulled the MAF sensor out & gave it a squirt of carb cleaner & also pulled out the MAP sensor & EGR valve & gave them a good squirt of carb cleaner. Car is now running fine again, if not slightly better....that MAP sensor & EGR valve like to be as clean as possible ;)

Still got the reversing light problem though :(

I did check all the grounding points in the engine bay today & none were loose....but I'm not convinced it's due to to a loose grounding point seeing as selecting reverse is stopping so many other functions from working whilst in reverse. I'm still thinking it's something simple like a dodgy relay....one minute it's working fine, the next minute it never works again !

Surely someone on here must have experienced this kind of problem before, or is this unique ? :rolleyes:
 

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Hello , when the reverse lights are not working , have you tried putting it into another gear ( either drive or neutral or park , ) then back into reverse to see if t rights itself ? , or wiggling the stick a bit when in reverse to see if that brings the lights back on ? .im not a mechanic of any discription ( heating is my trade ) but the thing with electrical faults is they can be a pain to track down ,
From what you have done , ie remove reverse light fuse , and then everthing comes back on ( so in effect you have taken out the fault ) .
There are grounding points all over Thease cars ,
I know on mine (9-3 ss) I had the interior apart for some water leak investigation, and found grounding points on the A and B pillars
Thease are just my Thaughts
Another question are the reverse lights situated in the boot opening or are they part of the rear panel ?
Cis if they are part of the boot there could be a break in the wiring loom as you open and close the lid ?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Hi Lizzard-t...thanks for the reply.

I've tried toggling between gears & also tried wiggling the stick when in reverse, but to avail. As for the boot wiring, I replaced all the wiring about a year ago after suffering from intermittent rear electrics (there were alot of broken wires). I did re-check it & all is still fine & did a continuity test with a multimeter between the multi-plug (behind left rear lights, behind panel trim) & reverse lights & it was fine. Also voltage tested the multiplug itself (with trans in reverse, ignition on) & there was no power going to the reverse light pin of the multiplug.
Will carry on checking grounding points around car in the hope of finding a loose one ;)

P.S.... bought some Opcom software with interface today. Installed onto laptop without a hitch.....just have to see if it picks up anything that my Delphi software didn't....fingers crossed ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I think I may have made some headway...not sure though ?. Had another day of hunting possible cause & removed the purple ignition relay 'H' from under the dash. Obviously I had no wipers, windows etc but when I put it in reverse the reverse lights actually came on !!, albeit for a few seconds, then faded out, so that means there are no wiring issues to the reverse lights & the reverse switch in the gear selector is definately working.
Why they faded out though within seconds is anyones guess ? Obviously what power went there quickly depleted.

So it's all connected somehow to the ignition relay 'H'

I swapped relay 'H' again for relay 'I' ( identical purple relay for heated rear screen/mirrors), but still nothing. The heated rear screen/ mirrors work with either relay in though, so both relays are fine.

I might also add that a strange thing happened while relay 'H' was out.....the radiator fans came on low speed for about 30 seconds & the key wasn't even in the ignition :crazy:

The new Opcom software on my laptop doesn't seem to able to connect to the ECM properly. It's works to a certain extent in that it will read fault codes, but when trying to connect 'proper' with ECM it times out & cannot establish a connection. I've checked the wiring in the back of the diagnostic port & none are loose.
I'm hoping that this is because it's cheapo software/interface bought off Ebay & not a problem with the ECM ?

Personally now though, I'm leaning toward a problem with the ignition switch deep in the bowels of the centre consol. I've had trouble with it before (about 3 months ago) in that the engine wouldn't turn over when turning the key.
It was an easy fix at the time though....just removed barrel & poured a capful of methylated spirits down the hole, left it it for 5 minutes, replaced barrel & voila !.... it's turned over 'on the button' ever since. Maybe it needs to be removed & looked at properly though ? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Just read WIS on how to remove ignition switch & it seems really involved. Has anyone else removed the ignition switch before & do they have any suggestions for shortcuts ?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Right then ;).....done a little more investigation & I'm now sure it's nothing to with the ignition switch, as the ignition relay H is energizing when turning ignition to 'ON'

Ignition relay H also has a direct connection to the reverse light fuse 2 in fuse box by drivers door (a thin purple wire)....a continuity test with a multimeter revealed this.

I've been observing the ignition relay H with the top off to see what is happening....

When switching ignition on, the contacts in relay H connect to make the circuit for the wipers, electric windows, indicators, cigarette lighter etc. But when selecting reverse the contacts come apart, thus breaking the circuit...so no wipers, windows, indicators etc.
When I manually (with my finger) push the contacts back together I get the wipers, windows, indicators etc back....but still no reverse lights.

In my mind, this can only mean one thing....the reverse light switch inside the gear position/neutral safety switch has gone kaput. But when selecting reverse, the little light on the dash board is showing that reverse is selected :confused:.....maybe it goes via a different means ?

Now, these things cost about £150 new....but I'm thinking it might just need a good clean (it does get dirty down there). A good soak in a bath of methylated spirits might do the trick ;)

Has anyone successfully cleaned the gear postion sensor/neutral safety switch (or whatever you like to call it) before ?.....& how did they do it ?

All advise appreciated :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Now thinking it's not gear position sensor/neutral safety switch as an earlier fault re-occured yesterday.....Started car & all warning lamps on instrument panel stayed lit up & when selecting drive it felt like it was in third gear, then it stalled. Turned car off & tried to restart, but it was as though the battery had been disconnected & there wasn't even a click...the car was dead.
After removing & re-inserting the key a couple of times it started on the button & everything was normal :rolleyes:

So I'm back to the ignition switch theory ;)
 

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FWIW i would go over all the earthing points on the car. Also get the alt checked,if not putting enough back into the battery could be your culprit.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks zohan for the reply....I've checked all the earthing points that relate to reversing lights & all are secure, but there may be one or two that I haven't found yet.
The alternator is kicking out 13.8 volts & the battery is brand new :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Just a quick update...I pretty sure the different symptoms I am having are down to different faults.

The car stalling at start-up is down to a bad MAF sensor....I'm getting codes P0100 & P0102. After clearing codes & removing MAF wiring plug, I start the car & get the same P0100. I've tried cleaning MAF but the car still intermittently stalls at start up or when first selecting gear hot or cold.

The intermittent problem with turning the key & getting not a even a click from the starter solenoid I think is down to a dodgy ignition switch.....or a faulty transmission selector switch ?

As for the reverse problem...a faulty transmission selector switch or Gremlins ?

This car really is starting to try my patience now & seeing I use it as a licensed taxi (my income), then it may be time to consider a change of vehicle.
But it only has 152,000 miles on the clock, so I know she's got plenty of life left in her. It would be a shame to give up on her now :(
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Car stalling soon after start-up wasn't down to a bad MAF sensor. The MAF sensor was bad & has now been replaced, so no more MAF codes.....but the non-start/stalling after start problem didn't go away.

See my other thread about 'ignition switch'

Thankyou all for your suggestions so far :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Finally, I have reversing lights again :D .......It was the ignition switch !!

Replaced it yesterday & all problems solved....no more erratic starting, no more stalling after starting, all dash lights working as they should, reverse lights working & electric windows, wipers, indicators etc working while in reverse :)

Who'd have thought that a dodgy ignition switch would have caused all these problems :rolleyes:

Thanks guys for all the advice :)
 

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Hi,
Sorry to post on an old thread but I just wanted to thank you for identifying this issue which I've recently also had on my 2006 95. Same symptoms of indicators, wipers etc not working after selecting reverse. Based on your findings I had the ignition switch replaced and like you, all the problems are resolved.
Thanks again!
 
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