[Skiddins]

I'm going to have to replace the front brake discs soon on my '97 Aero.
I have looked at Elk parts etc for prices and to see the various options I have.

Extra stopping power is not really required so I don't need very expensive upgrades.

Brembo with some aftermarket pads?
Black Diamond with aftermarket pads?

I don't want any brake squeal so I was thinking about basic replacement pads.

Is any of this viable or do you have any other recommendations?

Thanks
Skiddins

 

[ZARS]

I have the Black Diamonds on the front of my aero. The're ok, not brilliant. Brake dust is a major pain in the you know what

and under heavy braking there's a grinding sound which I've been told is common with the discs. I suppose though for the price I should'nt complain, and of course if you don't mind cleaning the wheels often I have Pagid pads all round.

 

[peter messenger]

i have black diamond discs and black diamond predator pads fitted to my stage 3 97 cse. there is no squeal. they work very well. i bought the drilled and grooved discs.

 

[PHudson]

Originally posted by Skiddins:
[qb]Extra stopping power is not really required
[/qb][/b]

If you say so. I was not at all impressed with the stock brakes.

[qb]Black Diamond with aftermarket pads?
[/qb][/b]

I have grooved Black Diamonds with Pagid pads. Much better than the standard, but they do squeal a bit, and need a bit of heat before working well - the first application in the morning can be a bit alarming...

 

[Skiddins]

What about using standard 'aftermarket' pads with performance disks.

Brembo discs about £60 (Grooved?)
Black Diamond about £130 (Grooved)

Which would be better in the long run?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Skiddins:

Extra stopping power is not really required


I noticed from some of the other posts that I searched through that people weren't impressed with standard brakes, but I can get the ABS to cut in easily if I push just a little too hard!
When I first bought the car I wasn't impressed with the pedal feel, but the actual braking is fine.

 

[kevster]

I have had brembo discs with pagid fast road pads on for a couple of weeks now and they haven't been squeeling (early days though). I did have a bit of a scary fading experience with them the other day though

just as I discovered a combine harvester on a blind corner as well....just squeezed though but can't have been with more than mm's to spare though.

Is this likely to have been the pads or do I need to get my brake fluid checked (I was pushing pretty hard on bendy roads so the brakes would have been very hot)?

Kev

 

[sgould]

Brake fluid is due to be changed every 2 years on a Saab service, regardless of mileage. Athough some later service schedules say every 4 years

 

[philcrombie]

I've got Brembo discs and Pagid FRs all round on the 9k Aero. The increase in stopping ability is very significant(even the handbrake is better!). Bedding in takes a good while though (a good few hundred miles at least) during which time things are a little hairy at times..

Mine went through a phase of squeeling on light braking but they have now stopped. Brake dust is about 10x more than standard pads, but it comes off quite easily.

Haven't managed to cook them yet - but got judder after some very spirited braking, - which went away after about 20mins (strange it went away?)

If I was to upgrade, I'd try the the Ferodo DS2500 but they arent cheap so depends how hard you drive/use them to the limit.
Looking back, the standard setup is verging on dangerous for a 225bhp car - never mind one with even more power.

 

[Mark B]

Originally posted by Skiddins:
[qb]Originally posted by Skiddins:

I can get the ABS to cut in easily if I push just a little too hard!
[/qb][/b]

Maybe you have extra low friction tyres!

 

[Skiddins]

  Maybe you have extra low friction tyres[/b]

Kuhmo 712's

My brakes are fine, apart from the fact they are almost metal to metal now and the pedal feel is not great.
I only ever get problems when coming down from high speeds, off motorways etc.
But they are definitely there when needed!

Skiddins

 

[billj]

Originally posted by faero:
[qb]Looking back, the standard setup is verging on dangerous for a 225bhp car - never mind one with even more power.[/qb][/b]

I've never driven a new 9000 but my Aero and my CSE have been Saab-dealer-serviced since new and with the Saab brake components the brakes are fine. I have fitted aftermarket discs and they were junk, dangerous in fact, even with the Saab pads. Perhaps this is the case with other 9000s that people have been unimpressed with. Don't underestimate the importance of the disc material.

The OEM brakes aren't over-servoed like some other cars and the pedal feel isn't brilliant so that may be why they don't feel as if they're very effective. However, when you need to scrub off a lot of speed in a hurry, a good stamp on them will usually do the job.

As far as discs are concerned, I use the Brembos. Pretty cheap and very good. I wouldn't touch cheaper alternatives now and don't see the need for any more performance-oriented discs with the standard calipers.

 

[Mark B]

When I bought my car it had been looked after by dealers since new, the local one to the previous owner being very reputable and often praised on these pages. The pads had "Saab" written on them, and the discs had about the right amount of wear to have been original. The brakes were awful, with a total inability to activate the ABS in the dry. I took the car to the dealer who had serviced it the last two times and asked them to test drive it and check the brakes. I was told they were OK, and not to expect any more! So I'm afraid I have to disagree with you BillJ.

 

[CarlyKeith]

Shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong, but as I see it, if Saab produce the Aero they no doubt knew that the car would be pushed occasionaly. therefore, would not the nice design chaps have come up with a breaking system capable of stopping it? I'd like to know

.

 

[gilbert]

As Red saab points out,the car makers must make the parts to stop the cars or they are in deep doo doo.Bare in mind, they did uprate the 9k brakes from 88>(ish)for the Turbo variants,then made them standard from 90>.
Volvo also shared the early 850T5 brake with the standard version of the 850,and thats probaly the closest comparison for the 9k anyone made,and again they had no problems there ethier.
But there can always be room for improvement,it just depends on funds most of the time

G.

 

[mark e]

Even if the pads/discs are high quality/OEM, if they haven't been bedded in properly, they will not perform at their best.

I've used the AP Racing procedure not just for my APs but also other brakes for a couple of years now and it works well

 

[Paul D]

Re: Brake Fluid.
Only need to change when water absorbtion causes vapor lock level to drop - many guarages have a device to measure this - free of charge. I recommend changing fluid every 3 or 4 years (not 2) but check vapor lock level first.

Brake disks:
I bought and self fitted Norbit (Swedish aftermarket disks for Saab/Volvo) disks and Saab (Textar!!) pads. Cost me £75 all told 2 yrs ago.

Braking performance was significantly improved over standard 'warn' disks and pads. No problem with Norbit in my experience - and I have now clocked up some 30k miles on the front replcement units.

 

[mark e]

Originally posted by Paul D:
[qb]Re: Brake Fluid.  
Only need to change when water absorbtion causes vapor lock level to drop - many guarages have a device to measure this - free of charge.  I recommend changing fluid every 3 or 4 years (not 2) but check vapor lock level first.[/qb][/b]

I changed the fluid on Debz car about 9 months ago, and when checked recently it was found to have a boiling point of only 125 deg C

.

It could be that the reservoir got a bit of water in it when I cleaned the engine bay, but equally it could be that one of the hoses has gone slightly porous and is allowing water absorbtion.

The deviced used by garages only measures the condition of the fluid in the reservoir, not near the calipers where it matters. 2 years is a safe maximum IMO.

 

[Mark B]

As Mark E says, the condition of the fluid in the reservoir is irrelevant, but this is all that garages can/do check.

What's important is the condition of the fluid in the caliper, because that's the fluid that gets hot. Most of the moisture gets into the fluid through the flexible hoses. This ingress is significantly reduced by the use of Aeroquip type hoses (enough justification to fit them in my view). However, I suffered fluid boiling on a car fitted with Aeroquip type hoses, and DOT 5.1 fluid. When we checked the records, we found that the fluid had been in there 3 years.

Most manufacturers recommend a change at 2 years. Mercedes, until quite recently, used to change fluid every year, and had their own spec which was higher than DOT 4.

So, inconclusion:

1) Change fluid at least every 2 years.
2) Use DOT 5.1 fluid. It costs very little more than DOT 4, but has significantly higher boiling points.

If you think I am ranting, I make no apology. People die regularly due to old brake fluid.

 

[Paul D]

Mark E/B.. thanks for your feedback. Interesting and raises a question...:

Doesn't water tend to rise to the surface in brake fluid?

If so, then there will be a higher concentration in the reservoir than at the brake cylinder end!

If the difference was significantly greater at the brake cylinder end, the 'Vapour Lock' devices could be dangerously misleading - which would raise serious liabilities on the garages that use them and the companies that make them!

One further consideration worth noting, is that water in brake fluid doesn't only (albeit rarely - never having known it occur to anyone!) cause vapour lock (i.e. boiling = steam = immediate loss of braking), but it also corrodes the braking system.

 

[mark e]

Apart from water absorption, I also believe that heat cycling and normal use gradually deteriorates the performance of the fluid.

I've not heard that water rises to the surface; Thinking it through logically water is more dense than brake fuild, and as the two mix together and form polar bonds I would have expected that if anything, it would sit lower in the system as the resulting liquid would be more dense than brake fluid alone. Dunno. Thats' a bit of postulation on my part.

I think that the testers are used by reputable garages as a further safegaurd over the manufacturers recommended intervals for changing the fluid- ie it will be checked every year at service, but even if it appears the boling point is OK after 2 years, it should still be changed regardless.