[markcanderson]

Re: BRAKE UPGRADE

Retaining the existing caliper, in my opinion, the first thing you can do is change the pads for a more aggressive pad, if you still have a lot of meat on your disks.

The Ferodo DS-2500 pad is a very good fast road pad..

http://www.trentsaab.co.uk/brake.html

I personally went for the trentsaab stage 2 kit.. which consists of the Ferodo pads and the brembo group N grey iron disks, front and rear.. These disks aren't grooved or cross-drilled.. but the chemical composition makes them take heat pretty well and the pads are very good with them.. also very resistant to glazing and fade.

 

[saabz2000]

Ha Ha, there is a better way... and cheaper! i'm interested to know why you want to uprate the brakes on a non turbo..... but anyway... you can fit a larger pad with a small amount of modification. The result is a larger pad surface area on the disc. This works very well on standard SAAB vented discs and they are available in various compounds. Drillings and grooves assist well in heat dissipation, but you may never reach the point at which they will be useful to you. I would avoid pattern discs as they tend to warp, but genuine vented discs are pretty good. Please ask if you would like the details on how to do this, unless you would like me to obtain and fit for you.

 

[jeremyfrost]

I hear that Pagid pads are very good. Rated for track stuff, certainly.

 

[billj]

The D2500 pads from Trent Saab do cover a larger area. They are actually specified for the '89-'93 M3, '80-on Ferrari Mondial and '85-on Ferrari Testarossa. They do require slight grinding on the backplate to make them fit, and the first ones I bought from Trent came already modified. The current ones didn't but I didn't find out until I was trying to fit them. All it took was a bit of filing.

If you want to modify them yourself, or have someone do it for you, the Ferodo part number is FCP256H. You'll probably get them cheaper from a motorsport shop. If you buy them from Trent, make sure they modify them first.

I know Abbott have stopped drilling their discs and say it was largely cosmetic (and their drilled discs had a propensity for cracking). Trent seem happy to use the plain Brembo discs in motorsport themselves, so I take that as a recommendation. I've had the same combination as Mark_A for less than a week and they're just bedding in, but they feel promising. I haven't had a chance to prove them on the track yet, but the same pads with my old ATE PowerDiscs were the most fade-resistant combination I'd tried up to then.

I did find Mintex C-Tech (1144 compound) pads gave slightly better performance from cold, but they faded a bit more quickly on the track.

For a normally-aspirated car, I don't think fade will be a problem most of the time (unless you live in a mountainous region), so I imagine you just want more stopping power. For this, I can recommend the C-Tech pads. They were available from Euro Car Parts, but they seem to have been out of stock for some time.

My experience with EBC GreenStuff pads on the 9000 is that they're OK for the first 1000 miles or so, then they generate at least as much dust as standard (they are advertised as "virtually dust-free"), make a heck of a noise and the performance is so variable as to be positively dangerous, with especially poor cold performance.

 

[saabz2000]

hmmmm, some good info there Billj... i am currently running M1144 but the application is BMW M635CSi.. grind the ears off and away you go.
I am pretty sure we are talking about the same pad.. i think they also fit porsche 928!!
I would be interested to know price of said ferrodo version pads.
My next set to go in are EBC yellow for BMW application, but i have heard they are hideous from cold, so maybe i'll keep those for the track.
The other option is to go up to M1155 or M1166
i obtain the 1144 pads for about £60 and i find them OK on the track if treated with a little respect. they are also pretty good on the road and not too pricey.

 

[gilbert]

Many thanks to all your responses,so far
O.K its not a turbo,but weighs the same & can do the same LEGAL speeds (& a bit more), as you turbo boys,granted tho',not as quickley!!
When u get 'kevin' in his Escort pull out on you on a crowded m'way,no indication etc.. you know you will stop cause your in a better built car then he,but with your kids in it u always want to be sure.
Oh & they look pretty too
thanx again everyone
G.

 

[billj]

saabz2000, the 1144s I use are specified for the 9000 and fit without modification. All my 9000s are in daily use, so the brakes must cope with that safely. I ditched the GreenStuff the day they failed to stop from 30mph in time to avoid hitting a dog (which was only knocked from its feet and walked away, hopefully a little wiser). I had what I thought was plenty of distance to stop. I need emergency-stop performance from the moment I leave my door first thing in the morning.

The Ferodos I have only have M3 and Ferrari written on the back of the box as "popular applications". A little grinding of the ends of the "ears" is what is required to make them fit.

I also have rear DS2500 pads from Trent Saab. They are FCP296H and are specified for a number of '80s BMWs. They should fit without modification, I'm told, but I found them a very tight fit with the Brembo discs due to the thickness of the pad material. They do seem to work well, though.

Front pads are about £116 inclusive and rear are about £90, I think (can't remember if that includes VAT). I'm told they are available elsewhere for quite a bit less, so I'll shop around next time now I know which pads to look for.

A set of DS2500s lasted through two track days at Goodwood, similar to the wear on the 1144s.

I do like the 1144s for the road and they're not too pricey. I might consider putting them on my other 9000s, which are otherwise unmodified and never go on the track.

 

[fastersaabs]

Mark_A, How much is the stage 2 kit from Trent?

 

[markcanderson]

It was 700 euro inclusive VAT and shipping to Europe.. (Brake components are heavy.. and thus carrage was expensive at around 150euro).

So I suppose the whole kit cost around 400quid, if you bought it in the UK inclusive VAT. Not cheap.. but very effective and probably the next best thing to scrapping your calipers and going for a 'proper' sports braking kit (AP Racing/Brembo/Movit) job.. at around 1300quid plus VAT.

 

[billj]

Originally posted by Mark_A:
[qb]So I suppose the whole kit cost around 400quid, if you bought it in the UK inclusive VAT.[/qb][/b]

Interesting. It cost me £463 + £21 shipping inclusive of VAT (as you say, brake discs are heavy, and they arrived the next day).

 

[markcanderson]

Yup.. it cost : 736 euro - Front and Rear Trent Saab Stage 2 Brake Upgrade (Comprising of Brembo grey iron front ventilated discs and Rear Brembo solid grey iron discs and Ferodo DS2500 front pads and Mintex rear pads).. internet mail order shipped from Trent Saab, UK

i.e. This..

Hmm at 1.53 euro to the pound.. that euro price is almost to the pound what you payed Bill!!!

Seems I didn't get as whacked on shipping charges as I thought... the deal was all done over the carphone, whilst I was driving somewhere.

 

[billj]

Ah, I got DS2500s for the rear too.

 

[billj]

Nice carpet

 

[markcanderson]

its a rug, over my wooden floor.. its scandinavian too..

 

[billj]

Originally posted by Mark_A:
[qb]its scandinavian too.. [/qb][/b]

The rug or the wood?

 

[markcanderson]

both no doubt

 

[gelcoat]

Mark whereabouts are you in NL my wife studied at the Haage, we rented a flat for two years. fantastic country and people also, well the ones I met.

 

[saabz2000]

BillJ, you do track days aswell.... i guess you were at the abbott days ??? or do you do others aswell ???
back to brakes, i have done 3 goodwood days, half a donnington day and half a brands hatch day on the 1144s and i am currently using my car as everyday transport still on the same pads!. Are you a pedal pounder???!!!
these engines are balanced to 8000 rpm at the factory so i tend to use a lot of engine braking to limit overheating to the brakes.
Don't be mistaken that i treat my car gently on the circuit.... i don't!

 

[billj]

Originally posted by saabz2000:
[qb]Are you a pedal pounder???!!![/qb][/b]

'fraid so.

I've been on 3 Goodwood days, including the last Abbott one. I'm a relative novice, but seem to drive more enthusiastically and confidently than many of the Porsche/Ferrari/TVR/Elise drivers and do quite well against them (I know it's not a competition, but you know what I mean).

I'll try using more engine braking to see if that helps - I know I have a lot to learn so I'm always looking for tips. Last time, only a couple of 130mph runs down Lavant Straight caused the DS2500s on the front to start to fade and I was hoping to reach even higher speeds on my next visit after the recent upgrades, hoping that the new discs will make a difference. Perhaps some engine braking will help enough that I won't need to take it easy every third lap. Now I have lower gearing, I'll have more gears to choose from, so that'll probably help the engine braking too.

I'm at Castle Combe on March 22 and Goodwood again on March 29. Mark E (Bubbles) is planning to come along too to help me embarrass "real" sports cars on those two dates. They're both half-day sessions. If you're interested, I can send you details.

[Edit: On the "pedal pounding", I forgot to mention that if your car is stripped down, then mine is significantly heavier than yours. That might have a bearing. I've no idea of the state of tune of your 9000, but with mine producing 300hp and 310lbft all the way from 2500-5000 rpm, you can imagine the momentum I have to lose to stay out of the gravel traps.

]

 

[billj]

Originally posted by saabz2000:
[qb]these engines are balanced to 8000 rpm at the factory[/qb][/b]

The 2.3 too?