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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, it started with a moment of madness on ebay (the same month as a new guitar, and i could only possibly afford one of them...)

And after a long time researching on-line and investigating under the bonnet (it's not that easy to find pin-outs for 9000 engine and ABS ECUs), i finally got around to fitting RaceLogic Traction Control (with data-logging and launch control - but i haven't, and don't intend making launch operational) to my Aero.

I took some photos, and RaceLogic have asked me to provide them with an installation guide for their website, which i will be doing as soon as i can get around to it, but the real news is: IT'S DEAD EASY!!!!

It's almost as if the car was built in anticipation of having it fitted: all the bits you need are to hand and the installtion leaves absolutely no visible trace under the bonnet (and just the on/off/slip/launch control/light in the dash. And no hacking about, or drilling, or major trim removal, or soldering in awkward positions.

And oh my, what a revelation: i can use 1st gear for the first time!

And the best added bonus? It backs power off using a pre-programmed sequence of controlled miss-fires, and when i would previously be spinning all my power away and under-steering into the nearest hedge, i now just accelerate on slippery surfaces to the most glorious pseudo-F1-pitlane sound track.

If anyone out there was thinking about getting it, but was put off by the extra expense/complexity of fitting it once you've shelled out for the kit in the first place - get your wallet out and get on with it!

Mine was more of a challenge than it might have been, as it was a 'pre-loved' system that had seen previous service in a toyota supra (six cylinder, rear drive), so all it's setting were to hell, and i had none of the factory supplied connectors - and even with those handicaps, it was in and working in about 8 hours (solo in my driveway (dry daylight only), spread over two weekends - and with the car never out of daily service) in a type of car it's never (according to RaceLogic) been fitted to before!

Sorry to be so wordy, but i've been watching the weather forecast hoping for rain so i can wind the window down a bit and go play!

Carl
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
RaceLogic are keen to point out that they control the fuel injection, not the spark, so no excess fuel goes through into the exhaust unburned - that's why the misfire 'cycles' through the cylinders, so that no one cylinder goes without fueling for more than a single cycle.

And anyway, the cat-thing is theoretical due to my Abbott downpipe.
 

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That's right - on any car with electronic fuel injection it skips whole injector pulses. The spark is only cut on non-efi cars.

I'd love to hear it working with my single-silencer exhaust, not to mention the extra toys on the dashboard (you get to dial-in how much slip you want
).

Is this a mod to do before or after limited slip diff? It's cheaper and sounds much easier to fit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is that a single silencer system on a 9000? I've been contemplating the removal of my centre-box chamber and relying on the abbott back box, but i worry about the neighbours...

Yes, the adjustable slip control is great, and in a car like the aero where you can pretty much choose to have / not have traction in first and second gears, it means you can remain aware that the electronics are working for you by letting the wheels spin 'a bit', and not get too cocky.

you are spot-on with your reasons for traction control over lsd in my case: my gearbox is fine currently, and while i'll consider (seriously) fitting an lsd when the time comes for a rebuild, i hope that that time is way off yet, and i bought and fitted the racelogic setup for significantly less than half the cost of buying the same product new - never minding the fact that even the new cost is a big saving over an lsd.

other advantages of traction control over lsd for me include:
i can use it to make the car less scary for my wife to drive (i'm also considering fitting an apc on/off switch to enable her to drive a 150bhp, non-wheelspin aero).

not only does it not alter the handling character of the car (as an lsd does), it can (on 'wet' setting) remove understeer almost entirely, giving the impression of an on-power turn-in that reminds me of a c900.

it's a universal fitment, and removable to leave no trace of it's previous fitment (witness mine's previous life in a supra) - so if my aero is worth no more with than without when i come to sell, i can remove and keep the traction control and fit it to the next car i buy - try doing that with an lsd!

Carl
 

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Originally posted by Swapped...:
[qb]other advantages of traction control over lsd for me include:
i can use it to make the car less scary for my wife to drive

not only does it not alter the handling character of the car (as an lsd does[/qb][/b]
Unless your wife is a lead footed hooligan driver she wouldn't be able to tell that a Quaife LSD had been fitted to your Aero...

The big advantage of the Quaife unit is that in normal everyday driving the car drives as if it had a standard diff.


Fitting the LSD is the single biggest improvement you can do to the chassis of an Aero. And I'd prefer it anyday of the week over any TCS system. It's the only thing I really miss about going to a 9-5 auto from the manual 9000 Aero (other than the hatch of course
)
But, this means I'm very interested in this RaceLogic setup as it sounds soooo superior to the diabolically useless standard TCS as fitted to the 9-5, and of course with an auto an LSD is not an option for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Superior to standard TCS systems? - I should say so!

And very flattering to your (my) driving too - unless your audience knows enough to recognise what's happening from the exhaust 'beat' (inside or outside the car), you just appear to judge your line through slippery corners beautifully, and have the most sensitive throttle-foot in the universe as you accelerate away on the very limit of straight-line adhesion...

I took a friend (who drives at a competetive level) for a 'spin' in damp conditions at lunch time: he got into the car sceptical, and back out of it saying 'jesus - it works!', and headed off to see if the system is prohibited in the formulas he races in!
 

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Hmmnnn....£645+VAT.

Not sure on the integration with the factory TCS/ESP system though, which is in turn integrated into Trionic....etc...

Worth an investigative email I suppose...
 

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Originally posted by Swapped...:
[qb]I took some photos, and RaceLogic have asked me to provide them with an installation guide for their website, which i will be doing as soon as i can get around to it, but the real news is: IT'S DEAD EASY!!!!

[/qb][/b]
Can you publish your photos here ?

Originally posted by Swapped...:
[qb]And the best added bonus? It backs power off using a pre-programmed sequence of controlled miss-fires, and when i would previously be spinning all my power away and under-steering into the nearest hedge, i now just accelerate on slippery surfaces to the most glorious pseudo-F1-pitlane sound track.[/qb][/b]
AFAIK racelogic cuts fuel injector pulses.


IMO Racelogic's traction control system is way too expensive, though ( components are very cheap, and system is quite simple ). It's also not so obvious, that it will not generate further problems, what comes to compatibility with T5 ( or especially with T7 ) EMS.

Your initial experiences sounds great, though. Please keep us informed! Hopefully everything goes well
 

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Sounds great! Would love to see some pictures.

I can agree that the LSD alters the handling of the car, but in my limited experience the alteration is only positive and it amounts to an oversteering stance during power application exiting bends. This is easily corrected by reducing the amount of lock being applied at the steering wheel, it all feels quite natural.
What I have yet to experience is loss of all grip due to excessive lead-footedness, I believe this will feel quite scary and I'm not looking forward to it, but as my natural style is rather smooth it'll be a while before I get there (I hope).
It certainly sounds like the fitment of traction control would be a foil to the above problem, and give great benefits. I'm looking forward to seeing the installation guide.
Nick.
 

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I very rarely know I've an LSD fitted and often wonder if it's broken.

But, I do notice that there is much much more grip in my Aero with LSD compared to the 2.3 Carly!

the Craly has the TCS light lit lots, and in 4th, the Aero needs to be pushed hard to get the TCS light lit.

The only times tou know it's there is when cornering hard, fast and full throttle in the dry when it trys to twist the car, and in the wet on corners when it is not harsh at all.

Andrew
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
A few points to cover then:

I will be working on the installation guide over the weekend, and with your indulgence I will put it up on SaabScene for feedback before passing it to RaceLogic for their site. I thought I might try to get some video footage outside the car of ‘on’ and ‘off’ from a slippery standing start too.

I too consider that the system is very expensive, but I would remind you that I bought mine second-hand on ebay for £300 – and that was a moment of indulgence as I didn’t have the £300 (all hale the god of free overdrafts), having spent it that week on an Epiphone SG Custom and a Cube 15. If I’d had my sensible head on, I probably wouldn’t be using the system today. If you do a search for completed auctions on ebay, BTW, you’ll see that when they do come up for sale, they go for around £250 - £350, so you might want to regard that as a price reference. Also, I know RaceLogic do group-buy discounts for pretty small ‘groups’.

Compatibility with T5 was a concern (but I figured I could probably sell it on again on ebay if everything went to hell) – and in the event, there hasn’t even been a hint of a problem. T7s, I would be less sure about, particularly if they have a factory TCS on them. Sorry, I don’t know what EMS is (it was electronic manual sport when I had my 99EMS).

I would love an LSD, and I had no intention of starting a debate as to what is better – MY traction control was way cheaper, and lack of traction in my Aero has been my over-riding concern in driving it: it was actually shortening my expectations of how long I would keep the car, as I’m extremely happy with the Aero, except for it’s lack of progress in slippery conditions, which make (made) it seem very crude and primitive to drive in comparison to ‘more modern’ cars with good traction control systems – I’m thinking specifically of the 9-3ss I drove this year that was a revelation to me, but not about the XK8 that was like flicking a switch every 2 seconds as the power overwhelmed the traction, that shut down the power, that built up again, that overwhelmed the traction…

What the RaceLogic is not, is a licence to be brutal with the throttle – a smooth style is beneficial still, particularly as the turbo can build so much oomph so quickly, and if you’re clumsy, you can find the rising boost overwhelming what the cutting of fuel can do to help, and you’re ‘in-extremis’ in a similar situation to the XK8 above.

Also, you have to come back to the fact that traction only comes from the contact area of whatever tyres you’ve got on, and the whole science should perhaps more properly be called ‘power-control’: if you generate more traction from the tyres, the system is needed less, and progress will be quicker – it can’t spontaneously generate grip, only allow the throttle use to match the available grip more closely. That’s what brings us to the best combination being an LSD PLUS Traction control PLUS sorted suspension PLUS decent tyres, PLUS an attentive driver.

Carl
 

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the best combination being an LSD PLUS Traction control PLUS sorted suspension PLUS decent tyres, PLUS an attentive driver.[/b]
...I agree..
I have 4 out the 5 !!
donno about the attentive driver bit tho...

If I was in your position I would probably seriously consider this option

the saab system is really not that bad and I really think it has contributed to me not going through too many gearboxes and allowing my tyres to last 20k miles...

the lsd and tcs work in different ways . I would not like simply to have an lsd ...as the wheels would still spin... but both of them would go at the same time.If this co-incides with you going round a corner ...no steering

Even with an lsd and tcs you still have to be circumspect with the throttle but you can explore the edges of traction with the knowledge the system will rein you in when overexuberence takes over ....

Lsd main contribution is in handling with added traction as a bonus.
 
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