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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone upgraded ECUs using a PPC rather than an echange ECU?
If so, have you also tried reversing the upgrade with the PPC and then reinstalling software again.
Can the PPC upgrade be performed multiple times?
What is it that the ECU/PPC programmers use to prevent the upgrade being able to be do multiple times on DIFFERENT cars as distinct from multimple times on the SAME car?
 

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Welcome to Saabscene!!

I haven't done a PPC upgrade (yet). But I they are being marketed as being programmed and unprogrammed as many times as you want.

They are unique in that they will only be sent after you have provided the VIN (chassis) number, and then will only work with a car with that VIN.
 

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Welcome to Saabscene, Timw!

Originally posted by sgould:
[qb]They are unique in that they will only be sent after you have provided the VIN (chassis) number, and then will only work with a car with that VIN. [/qb][/b]
Interesting. I could see how that might work on Trionic 7 (which is "married" to a particular car), but I didn't think Trionic 5 contained such information. The only thing about T5 is that models with the optional VSS security system (and not many had it) need to be matched with the security module or the car will be permanently immobilised.

Or maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and PPC can't be used with T5?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Originally posted by sgould:
[qb]They are unique in that they will only be sent after you have provided the VIN (chassis) number, and then will only work with a car with that VIN. [/qb][/b]
So, how is the VIN stored in an ECU that can make it "unique" as far as PPC upgrades are concerned. Surely it must be programmable.
At the end of the day there is no actual electrical connection between the VIN plate on the car and the ECU.
Therefore, if you could work out which part of the PPC code had the VIN in it then it would become universal especially if it was not encoded.
More broadly than this, where would one get the microcode commands for controlling the ECU in the first place. Obviously Maptun et al have been given the commands/source code for these chips. Is it freely available?
500GBP (minimum)is a damned site more that Microsoft XP office costs and I doubt that more man hours have gone into the development of the ECU program.
 

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500GBP (minimum)is a damned site more that Microsoft XP office costs and I doubt that more man hours have gone into the development of the ECU program. [/QB][/b]
Yeah, but I believe the range of applications for the first is somewhat broader...
 

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Originally posted by Timw:
[qb]Obviously Maptun et al have been given the commands/source code for these chips.[/qb][/b]
Not obvious at all. I believe they (and other tuners) have reverse-engineered it.

Originally posted by Timw:
[qb]500GBP (minimum)is a damned site more that Microsoft XP office costs and I doubt that more man hours have gone into the development of the ECU program. [/qb][/b]
But the market is enormous for Office XP so the development cost is spread over millions rather than hundreds of units. Imagine if you had to share the multi-million-dollar Office XP development costs with only 99 other users. How much would Microsoft charge you each then?
 

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One possible way this unt could be operating is by using the same part of the ECU that controls the car alarm. The Keyloq (yes the spelling is correct!) patent covers the ability to allow access to other parts of a system, once the correct information is within the "system". In this case I can imagine how the Keyloq car protection is given an additional set of data code to control the operation of the modified ECU. This is basically the method employed in the 9-3 and 9-5 car alarm/ ignition key to "boot up" the ECU.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Quite so and I do agree with all of your comments re XP office and the number of users to spread development costs over. The XP comparison was tongue-in-cheek.
However I did not realise that these various tuners had reverse engineered the ecu.
Bill, is this an educated guess or is it based on actual info?
 

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The performance data for the ECU is stored in some sort of EPROM. Whilst most EPROMS can be protected by blowing the programming fuses, it is still possible to get the data out of them. Otherwise the CPU in the ECU wouldn't operate! There are several methods in which way the EPROM can be "decoded". One of them involves popping open the casing (literally) and soldering new fuses. Then you extract the data. The process is not too complicated at all, once you have the right equipment. There are even companies that can do this process for you. The only snag is that they charge a hefty fee. So for one-offs it just ain't worth it. Unless you re going to use it in a more commercial environment.
 
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