Saabscene Saab Forum - Saab Technical Information Resource banner
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As we know, ppc upgrades 'marry' to the car once you download the software. What do they marry to? The ECU? If for example you wanted to move to Maptun, didnt want to take the finacial loss of your ppc, could you sell your modified ECU as an item so someone would be able to fit it into their car. Then just take the loss of the 'exchange' ECU.
For example if I could flog it for £300 and loose £150 on exchange, I'm still £150 up.
Thoughts.......
PS I AM NOT TRYING TO FLOG IT ON THE FORUM, JUST ASKING ABOUT THE THEORETICAL PRACTICALITIES.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,427 Posts
Paolo - chill, perfectly reasonable question which would be hard to interpret any other way than you intend it!

No idea what the answer is though, apart from I also understand the ECU needs to be "married" to your car - don't they need the VIN before sending you the new ECU? I daresay someone else far more knowledgeable will know for sure though...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,892 Posts
Originally posted by paolo:
[qb]As we know, ppc upgrades 'marry' to the car once you download the software. What do they marry to? The ECU?  If for example you wanted to move to Maptun, didnt want to take the finacial loss of your ppc, could you sell your modified ECU as an item so someone would be able to fit it into their car.  Then just take the loss of the 'exchange' ECU.
[/qb][/b]
IF you have BSR PPC, you don't have a 'modifed' ECU to sell....

The PPC flashes the original ECU with the modified program, and stores the standard software in the PPC unit.
If you sell the car just reflash the standard program back into your ECU before selling it.

IIRC, you can then get your PPC reprogrammed by BSR (pressumably for a fee) for the VIN of your new car and start all over again, provided of course you are happy with staying with BSR.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Fliptop, Im cool

Aero pilot - If the ECU is 'flashed'it still is an ECU that has been modified, so could it theoretically go into another car and allow that car to experience the power gains I have?

PPC stage 1 is currently the max for my vehicle, you cant go stage 2,3 via ppc at the mo. But yes I am considering other tuners.

Financially, as well,I culd ask the buyer to give me their ECU (they will have mine!) this means I would not loose out on the exchange.

What do people think, is the selling on of a modified ECU via PPC a feasable option? Would really appreciate your knowledge.
Cheers guys.
P
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,427 Posts
But if you put your modded ECU into another car, it won't work, will it? I thought this was part of the point of having to marry it to the VIN ? Or have I lost the plot...again
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,892 Posts
Originally posted by Fliptop:
[qb]But if you put your modded ECU into another car, it won't work, will it?  I thought this was part of the point of having to marry it to the VIN ?  Or have I lost the plot...again [/qb][/b]
Nope, you haven't lost the plot, it won't work in another car. It would have to be re-programmed for the VIN of the new car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
This is intriguing - where is the VIN stored such that the ECU can read it electronically?
(Or does a little man come out of the ECU in the dead of nght and read the VIN through the patch in the windscreen)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,618 Posts
Originally posted by Mike Hunter +SPM:
[qb]This is intriguing - where is the VIN stored such that the ECU can read it electronically?
(Or does a little man come out of the ECU in the dead of nght and read the VIN through the patch in the windscreen)? [/qb][/b]
Well no, more like one would need a Tech2 device plus the codes to open the menu on it to make the security changes on the ECU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So, if one were to go via the ECU exchange route, there is no VIN 'imprint'? I thought you had to give your VIN for these as well?

Therefore in summary, its a question of
a) stay stage 1
B) upgrade at a loss of £500+
c) await for ppc developments that allow stage 2/3 software to be loaded. (2.0 98-00)

d) To hell with the budget, take a mass loss on my car and buy that aero after all
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,892 Posts
Originally posted by paolo:
[qb]So, if one were to go via the ECU exchange route, there is no VIN 'imprint'?  I thought you had to give your VIN for these as well?

[/qb][/b]
Correct.

Perhaps I'm being a bit slow, but I'm still not sure as to what you are trying to achieve...???

Stage 2 via PPC is available for some models already, but that involves adding a cat-back performance exhaust, but may be different software to the Stage 1...?? But BSR can probably give that via your home PC for a fee.

Don't hold your breath about PPC going beyond Stage 2 as the main advantage of it (being able to reflash your original software back into the ECU) will be gone, as Stage 3 and above usually means fitting a modified downpipe, and with T7 or T8 the standard software will get it's knickers in a twist with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,172 Posts
A modified ECU can be sold on but will need to be taken to a Saab dealer (or someone with Tech 2) to marry it to the donor car as the security numbers will be different!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
682 Posts
Saabman is correct the ECU will still hold the upgraded flash in another car but you will need it recoding to match your engine immobiliser and your keys.

Subaru owners do it often when they sell on the Prodrive ECU but a trip is required to the dealers for the key/immobiliser recoding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Aeropilot,

With an Aero you cant be slow

I'm trying to achieve an upgrade to stage 2 or 3.

Currently you cant upgrade via ppc to stage 2 or 3 software (stage 2 software is needed for my model as you need the larger injectors and software to match). So basically, I would need to either wait for BSR to develop an upgrade, but this could be months, years, never? or bite the bullet and go and buy a complete stage 3 kit.
However, if I can soften the blow buy selling on my modified ECU, then at least I can get some of my original 'investment' back rather than throwing it down the drain!!.

In relation to the tech 2 advise, are people saying that they could get a Saab dealer to put the ppc modified ECU in the car and do the security coding at the same time? What do people reckon on the labour charge for putting in an ECU and doing the tech 2 coding?

This is all great advise - Cheers.
P
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,343 Posts
Originally posted by paolo:
[qb]What do people reckon on the labour charge for putting in an ECU and doing the tech 2 coding?
[/qb][/b]
Dealers charge on time. Frosts at Shoreham probably charge about £79ph+vat. Blimeys at Shoreham might charge a little less now? Mann & Woodland charge circa £45ph and Roy has Tech II.

Guess the answer is dependent on how long it takes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,892 Posts
Originally posted by paolo:
[qb]I'm trying to achieve an upgrade to stage 2 or 3.

However, if I can soften the blow buy selling on my modified ECU, then at least I can get some of my original 'investment' back rather than throwing it down the drain!!.

[/qb][/b]
I think you are making life uneccessarily difficult for yourself here....

You've used PPC, so why do you feel the need to have to sell your ECU....?

PPC 'flashes' the software into your ECU, and stores the original software in the PPC unit. So, the simplist solution is to reflash your ECU with it's original software from the PPC, thereby downloading the Stage 1 software back into the PPC and then sell on the PPC unit to recoup some of your cost. The buyer can then contact BSR to get them to recode the PPC unit to their car's VIN.

You can then go to whoever you want to upgrade your now original spec ECU to Stage 3 or whatever.

But you could consider a BSR Stage 3 upgrade and they may give you a discount off with the return of your PPC unit...???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Aeropilot,

Im not sure anyone would want to buy a ppc on the strength that they MIGHT be able to get BSR to recode the ppc unit, or even get through to anyone in the first place! People want to plug and play not spend weeks on the phone to Sweden only to be possibly told 'no can do'

If the ppc could be sold on with the stage 1 software and all someone has to do is download it in the presence of a tech 2 bod, then thats a different story.

What do you reckon??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,343 Posts
Originally posted by paolo:
[qb]What do you reckon?? [/qb][/b]
I reckon that their is no incentive to recode an existing PPC when they can get a second sale out of you. You have already paid a premium for a little white box that uploads and downloads the software, which is convenient and little else. This is why I think the exchange ECU is the better route. Cheaper and more flexible.

I think you need to ask BSR about this to be sure. The rest is just speculation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Aeropilot,
A mountain out of a molehill in what sense???

a) I cant upgrade via ppc with BSR on my model
B) I want to upgrade, so need to think about getting some money from what will be a redundant ppc. This is something Ive explored with you guys.

Perfectly logical and honest question as far as I see it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,427 Posts
I see exactly where you are coming from - but I agree with /john's advice to contact BSR and find out if they are able/prepared to alter your PPC to a new buyer's car, and if so what the cost would be.

Someone's already explained that you cannot just transfer the PPC upgrade between cars due to the key/immobiliser issue. So my understanding now is you will need BSR to do summat to make your PPC into a "virgin" PPC for the new buyer.

However I suspect the cost would be little short of the cost of a new PPC for that potential buyer...what's in it for BSR to do otherwise?

If that proves to be the case, then the lesson here must be that the BSR PPC is a dead end for tuning - if you want to go beyond, then you have to accept that initial cost is sunk and cannot be recouped.

If not, then it's not such a dead end. Not trying to diss the upgrade as I've no reason to believe it's not fine as it is - just the upgrade route beyond stage 1 is uncertain.

[edited for lousy English!]
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top