[curtinio]

A problem has come up overnight with my 2005 9-3 TiD Vector Sport.

When I used to insert the key, I'd hear a click or two, and some electrical sounds. Now there's no sound when the key is inserted. I can turn it, the engine management lights come on, but the car does not even try to turn over - Dead at the "ON" position. The central locking works fine, the battery seems fine, is pretty new and has been charged. The display complains of traction/stability control failure, but has been doing this on and off for a few weeks. The other strange thing is the fuel guage reads zero (got half a tank left).

Any ideas? I've checked the battery, main earths, fuses and relays. Not made it as far as the solenoid/starter yet. I've also not got a spare key.
If anyone can tell me exactly what happens when the key is first put in (but not) turned then I'd be keen to know, as this might point to the problem.

Thanks!

 

[David Martin]

Assuming the battery is OK then just a thought but has it possibly lost the code from the key to the immobilisor circuit?

My 9-5 did something similar , I solved it by locking and unlocking a number of times with the remote

 

[aerojon]

those symptoms say dead battery or loose connection..

i'd say new battery time..

 

[curtinio]

Cheers for the quick replies.

I tried a few locks/unlocks with they remote but I'll try this again.
- So, if I've got this right, it's the sounds of the immobiliser being disengaged when the key first goes into the lock?
- And if the immobiliser is still on the the key will turn, dash will light up but car won't start?
If so, that could be it.

As for the battery, yep, could be that, suppose I could try that first. Wish I had a second key though..!

 

[aerojon]

the click you hear when the fob is inserted is the steering lock dis-engaging..

if the power in the battery is so low it won't re-engage the lock after you pull the fob out..

 

[merve84]

Sounds like you have the 'fairly' common broken wire in the engine bay.
In the fuse box next to the battery you will see a red relay. Take out the relay and you will see 4 pins in the fuse box. Get a paper clip or something similar to bridge two of the pins.
If you stand infront of the fuse box towards the screen they are the pins on the left and right (30 and 87 I think).
Now try and start the car. Let us know the results.

 

[curtinio]

Cheers merve84, aerojon and DSM.

DSM - Tried locking/unlocking a few times with no change.
aerojon - Apparently if the battery has been disonnected, the steering lock won't re-engage until it gets a consistent signal from the ABS i.e. After you've driven the car. So think that it OK at the moment.

merve84 - I bridged the two terminals on the starter relay (yellow in my 9-3). The starter spins like normal, but the engine does not even try to fire.

Stuck a voltmeter across the LT terminals. These read 1v with the key just inserted, and this goes up to 12v when turned to "ON". When they key is moved to "ST", I'd expect a change in the voltage (probably back to 0v or 1v) - but it stays the same. So I guess the starter circuit is bust? Swapped the relay with another of the same type in the fuse box and this made no difference, so assume the relay is OK.

So what next..!

 

[Rickl]

My money is on the broken wire. My 06 120 Tid had exactly the same symptoms (nearly 2 years ago and typically just out of warranty...... and 200 miles from home). In my case one of the wires in the flex trunking between the engine and battery and about a foot or so down had broken, and other wires were about to do the same. This bit of trunking is cable tied to a bracket on the engine block. Fixed by my indy who soldered in new wires and wound lots of electrical tape round the wires in the trunking to prevent further chafing.
It might be worth a quick look - cut a few cable ties and peel back the trunking and feel for any 'floppy' wiring, or indeed any breaks.
Good luck

 

[merve84]

You need to bridge the two wires on the red realy this is the main electrical relay not the starter relay.

 

[curtinio]

Well, what do you know! You're right, I was was bridging the wrong relay.

When I connect pins 30 & 87 the high-pitched electrical whine I usually hear when I turn the key came on. The car started straight up, the traction/stability control lights didn't appear, the fuel gauge read fine, back to normal... Except there's a wire instead of a relay!

So, first question - Does shorting the relay do any harm (is it always "on" when the car is running normally)?
And the big question - Does this mean a broken wire somewhere in the loom, a computer malfunction, or a sensor fault?

Any feedback would be welcome.

 

[Rickl]

Well, what do you know! You're right, I was was bridging the wrong relay.

When I connect pins 30 & 87 the high-pitched electrical whine I usually hear when I turn the key came on. The car started straight up, the traction/stability control lights didn't appear, the fuel gauge read fine, back to normal... Except there's a wire instead of a relay!

So, first question - Does shorting the relay do any harm (is it always "on" when the car is running normally)?
And the big question - Does this mean a broken wire somewhere in the loom, a computer malfunction, or a sensor fault?

Any feedback would be welcome.[/b]

In my case the AA man did the same bridging technique after a phone call to the local Saab dealer. Engine turned over but car did not start. I think it depends which wire is broken as to whether the car starts or not. The traction control message, as explained by the indy garage who fixed it, is the next check in the start up cycle when the ignition key is turned, so something (ie the circuit with the broken wire) is not triggering the relay. The system cannot complete all its checks so will not allow the engine to fire (or something like that - too complicated at this time of the morning). Bring back plugs and points ('cept it's a diesel!! )

Again, good luck
R.

 

[merve84]

Basically the relay gives a power supply to the engine ecu with the ignition is turned on. Your relay isnt working because the earth wire on the switching side has broken in the loom.

The traction light comes on because the tcs module can't communicate with the engine ecu (as it has no power supply) fuel gauge is the same as it's controlled by the engine ecu.

Bridging the relay sends power straight to the ecu without the switching bit. If you leave it connected the ecu will be live all the time and other modules will will know there is a fault with the main relay circuit and put the eml on. I think it also goes into limp home and reduces power.

Either find the break or replace the wire from the engine ecu to the fuse box.

 

[curtinio]

Thanks merve84 for the comprehensive answer. I'll get the wiring diagrams out and see if I track down which bit of trunking the break is in.

Good advice on not keeping the ECU relay bridged all the time - I'll just do it do enable me to get to a garage as necessary.

 

[merve84]

The break is usually around by the battery. The loom runs round the back of the engine and between the engine and the battery (under a black turbo hose)

It's a brown and white wire, if you give it a little tug it will probably break and pull in two (careful though as there are a couple of brown/White wires in that bit off the loom)

 

[curtinio]

Thought I'd add a final nore to this thread.

Got acess to the ECU in front of the driver's wheel, with the intention of testing the circuit back to the fusebox for the suspected wire (E36 BN/YE). Looks like the car had been in a smash as the connector brackets were broken. Worse, the ECU was wet (who on earth decided that was a good place to put a sensitive control unit?).

I took off the two connectors with some difficulty as both were filthy and seized. DISASTER! The connectors were badly corroded, and a few of the pins snapped off completely in the 94-pin "B" connector. So I am left with some bashed connectors with pins rusted into them, and a ECU which probably still works, but has a few pins sheared off with no way of getting at them.

Car will now not start by any means. Not sure what to do... so starting off a new thread in case this has happened to someone else.

 

[petermcmahon]

Re: No click when key inserted, car won't start

Hi lads sorry to bump the thread was left stranded seems i have this problem as i have these exact symptoms. The connection was randomly made and i got home the other so i suspect its just a rusty or bad earth somehwere. I have been looking for an earth but am not entirely sure what im doing so I said i better drop a line here before i did anything. Does anyone know where any/the particular earth is? Or does bridging the ecu do any damage/cause any problems?


"Bridging the relay sends power straight to the ecu without the switching bit. If you leave it connected the ecu will be live all the time and other modules will will know there is a fault with the main relay circuit and put the eml on. I think it also goes into limp home and reduces power. "
"

 

[kez]

Re: No click when key inserted, car won't start

you are bridging the relay not the ecu although rather than use a paperclip I would recommend using an inline fuse

terminal 30 of the relay is the 12v supply which sends power to 87 when the relay coil is activated 85 and 86

first check you have 12v on terminal 30 if you don't its more than likely a fuse issue

then come back to me and I will guide you through