[Ian Wigg]

After the garage inspected the damage it appears that the bolt holding the jockey wheel to the block has absolutely no thread left on it and there is the remnants of a lot of liquid metal around where it bolts into the engine. Whether someone had just attempted to bond the stripped bolt in place or had filled the hole, drilled and then tapped it rather than using a helicoil or similiar is unclear (in this case the thread may have stripped as the bolt spun in the hole when the liquid steel gave way). Either way it was a complete lash up.

According to the garage, when the engine arrived even the rocker covers were sealed with blobs of paint and they weren't allowed to undo anything without permission from the supplier otherwise it would have invalidated the 90 day warranty and unless they had actually attempted to remove the jockey wheel there is no way they would have seen anything was amiss so it looks like it's down to the people who supplied the engine. Now comes the battle to get them to pay for the labour costs of replacing or repairing the engine and the recovery cost in additiion to any parts.

On the bright side it seems like ther is a good chance that the cambelt may have only jumped a tooth or two so internal damage may be small.

I'll keep you all posted.

ps.

Any good UK lawyers here (just in case!)

 

[tandino]

How was the engine paid for?? - did the garage who installed the engine pay for the engine from the suppliers and then you paid the Garage for the labour and engine or did you purchase the engine and then pay for the garage to do just the instalation??,
If you paid for the whole lot direct to the garage then im pretty sure they are liable regardless,
If however you purchased the engine yourself from the suppliers then the garage isn't liable for replacement of the engine.
Di you happen to pay by credit card - you should be able to claim all of it back if you did - goods not fit for purpose/faulty goods etc

Pete.

 

[Ian Wigg]

I bought the engine and had it shipped to the garage. The engine came to £800.00 + VAT with £50.00 + VAT Shipping which was paid £800.00 on C/C and the balance of £140.00 by cash. The engine itself is covered on a 90 day warranty so there shouldn't be any problems there plus statutory rights covers me on that score (also gives me the right to decide repair or replace subject to cost effectiveness.) It's the recovery of the additional labour and recovery charges that concerns me as these would leave me about £700 out of pocket.

 

[tandino]

Its going to be hard to stomach this but i dont think the engine supplier will cover the labour or any recovery charges.
Youll probably find a disclaimer in the small print somewhere,
I had a similar experience when i purchased a secondhand gearbox from a well known UK Saab specialist - owner by 2 brothers of Greek origin - the box had pinion whine and although i had fitted it myself and replaced all fluids etc i got no offer of compensation for the work involved - they cover the part and thats it...
Hope you succed but i feel its going to be a long and winding road

Pete.

 

[2TURBOS]

May I suggest a quick look at your car insurance?
If you paid for "legal expenses" on the policy,
then they should, at the very least give you some advice.

Good luck!

M.

 

[whitesaab]

Putting my retailing head on ( and this is my understanding of the Law - and I live in Scotland) I'm afraid Tandino is probably right.

Under the sale of goods act your contract is with the person you actually ' buy' the product or service from.

The garage fitting the engine are contractually liable to you for any problems occuring from the work they carried out, but not with the engine , which is the responsiblity of the supplier.

Sorry if that only tells you what you already know but if you don't get a definitive answer from any of our legal friends( if 'friend' is the right word ) - then if you know anyone who is a member of the 'Federation of Small Businesses', get them to call their legal helpline. I'll be happy to do it on your behalf .

If you want me to call just send me a PM with more details.

 

[Ian Wigg]

Hi

Thanks for all the advice. I know I've no claim on the garage and, in fact they're trying to sort things out with the supplier for me. As the engine was purchased post Spring 2003 (I can't remember the exact date) my statutory rights are such that I am entitled to request that the defective item be repaired or replaced - my decision - to pace me in a position where I was prior to the failure occuring. This is the case whether it be a kettle or a jumbo jet. Any warranties and terms of business are supplemental to and not exclusive of these statutory rights.

Obviously this is all somewhat hypothetical at present as I'm still awaiting the outcome.

There is, of course, the possibility that the supplier can trace who did the bodge job and pass the warranty issue back to them.

 

[cbullock]

Originally posted by Ian Wigg:
[qb]£800.00 on C/C [/qb][/b]

Ian call your credit card company the defective item may well be covered by their insurance (purchase protection).

 

[PHudson]

Originally posted by Ian Wigg:
[qb]There is, of course, the possibility that the supplier can trace who did the bodge job and pass the warranty issue back to them. [/qb][/b]

Doesn't matter. The supplier is still liable - if they can get their supplier to fix it, that's great for them but doesn't alter their liability to you.

If you're a member of the AA/RAC etc, try their legal services too. The AA were very helpful in a somewhat-related situation we had.

 

[PHudson]

Originally posted by Ian Wigg:
[qb]There is, of course, the possibility that the supplier can trace who did the bodge job and pass the warranty issue back to them. [/qb][/b]

Doesn't matter. The supplier is still liable - if they can get their supplier to fix it, that's great for them but doesn't alter their liability to you.

If you're a member of the AA/RAC etc, try their legal services too. The AA were very helpful in a somewhat-related situation we had.

 

[Ian Wigg]

Hi

I've dug out this link which seems to give me all the ammunition I need. Might be of use to others in the future.

Problems with goods & Services - Your legal rights

 

[Ian Wigg]

It now gets even better. The people who supplied the engine are now saying that they aren't liable for anything as the part that failed isn't part of the engine as purchased but but supplied as a free extra and the best they will offer is a discount against a replacement engine.

Looks like it's a trip to the solicitors.

 

[cbullock]

Originally posted by Ian Wigg:
[qb]Looks like it's a trip to the solicitors. [/qb][/b]

I totally agree Ian, thats like saying we aren't liable for the food-poisoning after you bought the hotdog, it was the free sauce that mad you ill!

You now need to rack up compensatory claims too, car hire, travelling expenses, towing, storage, hit them for the lot!

 

[sgould]

Originally posted by Cosmic Blue 9-5:
[qb]You now need to rack up compensatory claims too, car hire, travelling expenses, towing, storage, hit them for the lot!    [/qb][/b]

Good idea, but you need to start a diary, right away, of events and log all places and times of everything relevant. Letters, stamps, phone calls, tickets, receipts, etc. as well as a record of your time - everything really..... If it gets to court, you will have to justify your claim for losses.

 

[TheFox]

Originally posted by Cosmic Blue 9-5:
[qb] QUOTE

Originally posted by Ian Wigg:
[qb] £800.00 on C/C [/qb][/b]

Ian call your credit card company the defective item may well be covered by their insurance (purchase protection). [/qb][/b][/quote]I second that- Barclaycard was very efficient in getting some money back for me before- the last thing that they want is for someone to be representing them in a bad way. Call them asap.
Technically the goods are not yours until you have cleared the credit card payment on it.

 

[Ian Wigg]

Firstly I'd like to thank everyone for their advice and support.

I'm going to be contacting my creditcard provider and in addition I have contacted the CAB to get their assistance.

The garage are preparing a mechanical report to back things up. In addition they have provided me with a courtesy car whilst this is being sorted which at least means I'm able to get to work.

I really wish I could plaster the name of the outfit who sold me the engine all over here as a warning to others regarding their cavalier attitude to customer's rights but as I'm going to be sueing them I'd better not.


The saga continues ....

 

[mark e]

Ian,

Your basic claim is going to be based around the goods being of "merchantable quality".

The engine was sold to you as a used item, so you do expect some wear and tear. However, the fault you describe is not something that is "reasonable wear and tear" for an engine of that age/mileage. In selling a used part to you, regardless of any warranty that may be stated, a trader has an obligation to ensure that the goods are in a condition commensurate with the "norm" that could be expected for that age/mileage. They clearly haven't done that on this occasion.

There's no doubt IMO that you have a valid claim for replacement of the goods supplied. The harder part is dealing with consequential loss. If a failure can be shown simply to be "bad luck", then you haven't got much hope. However, if you can prove they were negligent in their inspection, assessment and subsequent description of the engine, then you have a good case. From what you've said so far, I believe the latter will apply

As far as posting stuff here goes, we don't have a problem with anything that's factually correct- and nor should you from a legal point of view.

 

[john]

The term "Merchantable quality" has been dropped when The Act was last revised.

[Goods] ...must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality

Sale of Goods Act

Otherwise MarkE is spot on as are the other posts in my view. Whilst this is subject to legal action, I too would be reluctant to name names.