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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks, I'm still on the hunt for a new machine.

At the moment I've got 2 on my list - haven't had a chance to go and see either yet, so this is just about speculation really.

I am also fully aware no-one here can give me "the answer" or tell me what to do... I'm just looking for gut reactions or opinions or advice or..

Anyway - car 1: Saab 9000 CSE 2.3 Turbo, Manual, 1996N 88,000 miles, FSH, R/C, S/R, super aero wheels, new MOT, supplied with 3 month warranty and full service. This one is trade, and they will take p/x (I have a knackered 9000S 2.3t to dispose of!) £3695

car 2: 9000 Aero, manual, 93L 115,000, partial history. Correct wheels ("could do with refurb"), new gearbox/clutch 2 years ago, new DI "recently", wishbone bushes done, "no smoke from turbo". Proper audio system, climate control. Tyres good, front ones new. "No oil leaks". Timing chains not done. Guy is a mechanic, owned a few months, getting married, wife-to-be says the car has to go. £2800 o.n.o.

I'm not particularly looking for an aero - the 2.3t is really fast enough. That said , I love fast! I want something to keep for a few years.

Opinions? Thanks in advance!
 

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Gut reaction is that the CSE is the better car. Is it a full turbo or LPT (LPT will have no boost gauge). The Aero will have TCS, which you're probably better off without, and being the "sporty" model, is more likely to have been thrashed. If you ever wanted to upgrade it in future, the Aero turbo will support more power, but '93 was a transitional year and is hard to get ECU upgrades for. Also the '93 Aero gearboxes are like hen's teeth if you needed a replacement at some point.

FSH or very close to it is an absolute must for a 9000.

What's R/C and S/R?

I may be a bit of a sceptic, but I'm always naturally suspicious of a mechanic disposing of a car for "genuine reasons". If he doesn't want the car, I'd be worried that he either bought it to do it up and sell on or he has found out something about the car that makes him want to sell it.

At least with a trader you have some recourse if they try to rip you off. I don't suppose you'll get more than a few hundred quid for your old one, though.
 

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I go along with BillJ to a certain extent, I'd certainly go for the CSE especially if you see it as a long term proposition. Price sounds OK, mileage reasonable. Could even have been a company car at some point (good news this, will have been maintained regardless of cost).

Having said that, if the Aero is a '94 model (I assume it is, don't think there was a '93 model year Aero), then it has the tougher gearbox. This was explained to me by the seller of my '93 2.3 eco, who happened to be a senior Saab GB technician. Agreed that it may already have been thrashed, not all Saab owners are as nice as us Saabscene people.

Whichever you choose, enjoy!

As Bill says, you can always upgrade the CSE anyway, whether it's an LPT or HPT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks BillJ... I think what you say makes a lot of sense. And the additional info about the model is invaluable! You're probably also right to be suspicious of the mechanic's motives... I'm too trusting

Yep the CSE is a FPT. It's also a nicer colour - metallic blue vs. the Aero's red. R/C = Radio cassette (Aero has CD and amp). S/R = sunroof (aero cas ACC but no sunroof).

No ACC is a shame, but it's one less thing to go wrong and a sunroof is a plus.

Another way to look at it I suppose is that you can tune a CSE up to standard aero output quite cheaply, and the suspension etc is more or less available (and I even get the wheels on this CSE) so apart from the seats it's all possible... the CSE is maybe a better base to start from.

If I can get maybe 500 quid trade in on mine I'll be very happy
 

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I'd go for the CSE; fewer worries all round, and plenty of power for the average user, even the LPT.

You know, there are a few CSEs around at this spec/mileage/history being sold privately for around £1,000 less than your dealer. Why not sell your old one privately and put the cash towards your next 9000? Trade isn't everything, and you must go thru' that warranty (only 3 mths?) to see exactly what the garage is prepared to cover. As a guide, I've just bought privately a 9000CSE manual 2.3 LPT, 1996, 120K miles, FSH, no work required, good condition - £1,800 (but haggled hard). The first 3 years of its life was fleet, and it'd been looked after. I don't think searching the private ads represents a huge risk, as long as you know what to look for and the car comes with FSH etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a complete advocate of buying privately, I'm sure there are some good deals to be had with Saab independents. But having researched for 3-4 months before buying mine, I have felt that some garages/dealers mark them up massively simply because 'they look like they're worth a few bob more'. I guess I don't believe there is masses of added value going down this route.

BTW, I've just checked Glasses consumer values on-line, and they reckon on £2,100 for a CSE of your spec and mileage. I'm just thinking aloud, but where's the 'added value' in paying an extra £1,500 for going trade?...
 

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Yup, my money would be on the CSE too. 115,000 is low miles for needing a new box which suggests either it hasn't been looked after properly or there's been a significant fault.

I'd steer clear of the 93 model year because of it's uniqueness- it's certainly caused me grief with the box, head and ECU upgrades.

They did make Aeros in 93, Scaero has one (also an L plate like my CS)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by Saab-jager:
[qb]You know, there are a few CSEs around at this spec/mileage/history being sold privately for around £1,000 less than your dealer.[/qb][/b]
Really? I am specifically looking for a 2.3 FPT manual... they don't seem to grow on trees!

[qb]Why not sell your old one privately and put the cash towards your next 9000?[/qb][/b]
I will if I have to, but frankly it's knackered, despite the new MOT it has, so I'd rather just be rid of it.

[qb]Trade isn't everything, and you must go thru' that warranty (only 3 mths?) to see exactly what the garage is prepared to cover. [snip] I don't think searching the private ads represents a huge risk, as long as you know what to look for and the car comes with FSH etc.[/qb][/b]
I agree with all that! Warranties of this type are basically worthless, and I'd quite happily buy private if I found the right car.

[qb]BTW, I've just checked Glasses consumer values on-line, and they reckon on £2,100 for a CSE of your spec and mileage.[/qb][/b]
Parkers has this at £3835 for average mileage (which it reckons would be 80,000) for "Private good".

Wonder why the discrepancy?

Most of the similar cars I've seen - private and trade - are more than this (or 300 miles away).
 

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John,
I promise you, Parkers is the last place to check second hand values, private or trade. They have been out of touch with real market values for quite some time now, and that's not just for Saabs. I remember watching a programme with Quentin Wilson in it, and a number of points were made:

1. There is oversupply in the second hand market
+
2. All sorts of EC Directives threaten to push up trade sellers' costs on cars over a certain age (5yrs?)
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3. More folk are going for used car supermarket deals, 'cos they can finance nearly new cars for not a lot of APR, and punters feel good about that (plus they don't usually have that kind of cash). They keep them for 2-4 years, sell them on and refinance another nearly new purchase. So more and more cars for sale over 5 years are being ignored.
+
4. Car auctions are showing punters another way of buying cheaply (never mind whether the cars are any good - it's the perception that sticks)

= Second hand market: there are no rules any more.

I don't think guides like Parkers have caught up with all of this. And Saabs have never seemed popular 2nd hand with the mass Ford/Vauxhall/VW buying public, who probably think Saabs aren't a safe bet.

Try Glasses online, or CD Bramall (I think) - they seem to show more real-world values.
 

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Ding dong! Hello John, left my mobile at home today (thankyou Mrs Paco for phoning me with Johns SMS) so only just caught up with this! Word around the campfire seems to be the Aero is a risk, & the CSE sounds good, but dear. Must say I've learnt more from these posts about 9k purchasing than I have in several weeks of er "research".

What about the Exchange and Mart Aero in Bucks?
Exchange and Mart Aero

Oooh oooh! it's been reduced! £3250!! Buy it, flog the plate ( we just made £500 out of my mum's heap of a Citroen by flogging it's lame number plate....
) and you're quids in. Yes more miles than the CSE, but as we discussed previously, the mileage isn't absurd, and providing the history's intact, it should have had some big expensive jobs recently, like timing chains, which you still face in the CSE. AND... its an Aero
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Give them £3k for cash, flog yours for £500 locally, sell the plate for a few hundred, it leaves you a neat contingency fund.....

If I had the cash in my pocket I'd be up there buying it now....in fact.....

[Edited to get rid of huuuge URL that was ruining the formatting in some browsers - BillJ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Saab-jager, thanks for your comments - very interesting indeed, especially what you said about Parkers. Sadly, you have to pay for each Glass's valuation, and you can't get the book (unless you are in the trade). I agree with your analysis - in fact, I started out expecting to pay about 2K...
Thing is, I just haven't seen anything decent for sale in this range. Manual 2.3 full turbo CSE's are thin on the ground, combine that with reasonable distance (<200miles to travel) and FSH requirement and there's very little to be had at _any_ price. So maybe these cars are overvalued... but the Parkers prices seem to reflect the asking prices of the cars I've seen. So unless most of these people can be haggled down a _lot_, then I guess by definition their prices are realistic, even if they may be unreasonable? I hope you are right though! Maybe that bargain is waiting out there for me ... it better hurry, before my 9K falls apart
 

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John, Paco,

Pwhooarrr. That Aero for £3,250. Yes, it's got FDSH (but 5 owners), fully stamped up, no major work done, owner believes no timing chain rattle, interior immaculate, logbook. If Paco is right re. no plate & you sell your old 9K John, then that's about £2,000 to you sir. Bargin!
 

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Curse my poverty! John, get on the phone...NOW!!!
BTW the Glasses price for a 94 Aero with 100k is about £3250 IIRC I looked it up through a trade chum when enquiring about one on the SOC site advertised at £6k, but you try and find one. Ok, not that one, try and find another

I expect it to be on your drive this w/e
and I expect a go in it pronto and a bottle of Cava finder's fee
 

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John, a couple have turned up on Autotrader too, nice sounding 98k fsh blue Aero for £2495, but it's in Yorkshire
which is apparently within 200 miles of us if you believe Autotrader....and a Red one that looks pretty sweet too (Aero again, I haven't time to look for CSE's for you ) which is within 50 miles, and Trade again, under £3k I think...Get shopping, my good man
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Wow the two you pointed out Paco, both gone, within one day of being advertised on the net (before even getting into the dead tree format!) The dealers themselves were suprised with how fast they went.

I better get my skates on...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Originally posted by Saab-jager:
[qb]BTW, I've just checked Glasses consumer values on-line, and they reckon on £2,100 for a CSE of your spec and mileage.[/qb][/b]
I decided to spend out on Glass's valuations online for the 2 cars:

9000 2.3 CSE 96(N), 88,000mi - Trade in (excellent) = £2030, Retail = £5,030

9000 2.3 CS Aero 95(M)* 130,000mi - Trade in (excellent) = £1610, Retail = £4530

Not sure what to make of that really Still makes both these cars sound cheap, surely?

Do you have access to the trade site or summink?

[* They didn't go back to 94! ]
 

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In January I bought a 2.3 9000cs lpt privately, 63,000 miles and a full Saab history, plus all the receipts for the bits in-between the services. I paid £2900 and I'm chuffed to bits with it.

I've got a new ecu on the way, the heat plate is coming out of the inlet manifold & with one or two other little tweaks I should have about 250ish horse power for an extra £500. If you did ever decide to upgrade a FPT it would cost even less as you already have the APC system that my car lacks

Got to be the best car per pound I've ever owned .
 
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