Good point John . but just to be pedantic the slant four was designed by or for Saab and built by Triumph , it only became Triumph when they (Triumph) were left with hundreds of units , after saab cancelled the contract and built them themselves , thats why the Dolomite Sprint always blew head gaskets and the same motor built by Saab did not
but just to be pedantic the slant four was designed by or for Saab and built by Triumph
Saab had been in the market for a four-stoke engine for it's 99 model in development in the sixties. (The 1498 Ford Taunus V4 had already found itself as the basis for the new 96 engine.)
Saab had been working with Ricardo Engineering of Shoreham on this project for a while and they were looking at a 1300 or 1500cc engine, I think. Triumph were also looking for an engine at the time, so Ricardo got them together.
I don't think Saab designed it because they were not happy with the head bolts that went in at an angle (hence headgasket problems/warped heads on the Triumphs???) - Saab redesigned the Triumph engine to some extent for their own purposes I think.
The above is from memory, so I stand corrected if I have got it wrong and I will go back and read the books again! ;-)
On the subject of early Triumph / SAAB engines, my recollections are that the Dolomite Sprint was a twin cam engine which the 1700 cc version as fitted to early 99s definitely was not. What I am sure of is that the triumph unit fitted to early 99s was rubbish. In the 2 years I owned one (mid 70s) it did in 2 head gaskets and munched its way through a set of crank end float shims doing the clutch, starter & ultimately crank shaft no good at all.
The first 99s were fitted with a 1709cc engine developed by Ricardo for Triumph. Saab were on the lookout for an engine for the new 99 and were offered the above lump. The 1709 was later opened out to 1854cc and this appeared in both 99s and Dolomites of the era. The slant 4 is basically half the V8 unit used in the Stag and is reknowned for head trouble due to crappy aluminium castings and angled head bolts.
Saab later reworked the 1854 into the 2litre B20 engine which later evolved into the B201 H and later the 16v B202 and later 2.3 versions. The B20 stretched the original triumph design to give more metal between the bores and, more importantly, redesigned the head bolt arrangement.
The Dolomite Sprint used the same 1854 block as early 99s and the 1850 Dolomite, mated to a very clever single cam 16v head, producing 145bhp.
>>>Not many ppl on this forum get that excited about the V6's coz they're generic GM units, not "proper" Saab.
In line with the above info (very interesting), I understood that Saab took both the Triumph 1854 and Ford V4 'designs' and improved them with their own engineering - which has proved to be so far better than the original designs.
Hence, I tend to agree with 1989agoodvintage, in terms of the V6 not being a "proper" Saab - unless someone will tell me that Saab have modified the GM V6. In which case, we retract our conclusions!
If the GM V6 has been modified by Saab, I would be interested in what mods were applied?
I understood that Saab took both the Triumph 1854 and Ford V4 'designs' and improved them with their own engineering
This is my understanding, too.
If the GM V6 has been modified by Saab, I would be interested in what mods were applied
I don't know. But I do know that they used it on the GM900 but not the 9-3. I'm not clear on the V6-asymettically charged 3.0 lump in the 9-5 M98-01.
I think Saab have done a similar thing with modifiying the Isuzu diesel units.
Have to agree with Julian,the V of the german engine was wider than the Dagenham derivative,but as for Saab mods,I don't know of any , certainly all parts could be sourced from Ford at vastly reduced cost.
Re: Triumph , I still maintain that the engine was originally for Saab,at the time under Leyland , only the 1300&1500 and Stag were made in Coventry and the TR4 in liverpool.As far as I am aware there were no plans for further cars,as for the slant 4 being half of the Triumph V8,I doubt it as the V8 was a virtualy hand built engine.
At the time the midland press blamed Saab at least in part,for the demise of Triumph,as they were left with thousands of units for which they had no use.
Of course I may be suffering from selective memory and have the story wrong,but if I have there are a lot of others with the same problem.
Tin hat on,head down,go for it.
heres my tuppenceworth. Triumph made the engine for saab with saab selecting from those finished which ones they wanted. The rest were fitted to triumphs. The alleged problem which caused Triumph to end up with a load extra was because saab werent satisfied with the quality so wouldnt take them.
Thats from a mid 60's (age) saab dealer who lives and breathes Saab. pretty much a walking history book although I cant tell how selective or biased his recall is.