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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is there a Manual boost controler out there that is compatible with trionic equiped saabs (specificaly T7 for '02MY 9-3)???

I have been looking and they say that manual boost is not recomended with trionic....
 

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Originally posted by drioux15:
[qb]Is there a Manual boost controler out there that is compatible with trionic equiped saabs (specificaly T7 for '02MY 9-3)???

I have been looking and they say that manual boost is not recomended with trionic.... [/qb][/b]
Forget fitting any MBC to a T7 equipped Saab, T7 doesn't like MBC's I'm afraid.
 

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so how is it working? I have a couple of 1992 9000 turbo's and want to do a *little* addtion to the hp. something to about 250. what other things have you done?
 

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MP performance came up with a solution[/b]
MP performance didn't come up with that 'solution'.
First, a solution to what? An SMBC is simply an adjustable pressure relief valve. What it does is prevent flow up to a set point. When placed in line between the turbo and BPC (not wastegate actuator and BPC), the BPC wont 'see' any boost until the SMBC opens, so it prevents the wastegate from premature opening. It does not give more power, nor any more boost. What it does do is allow the turbo to give better response (faster spool) at low rpms. It doesn't override the APC/BPC control, and if set properly (so boost pressures don't spike too high), will not set a CEL on a T7. MP did not develop this 'solution'. All they did was market it. For truly making more power, one can make an elegant choice or a not-so-elegant choice: software that addresses APC, fueling, and timing is the former, while MBC's, negation of APC control, and band-aid approaches to fueling and timing are the latter
 

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[qb]Originally posted by zeke (aka Bob Lavergne):  For truly making more power, one can make an elegant choice or a not-so-elegant choice: software that addresses APC, fueling, and timing is the former, while MBC's, negation of APC control, and band-aid approaches to fueling and timing are the latter      [/qb][/b]
Well said that man.....
 

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all good information. I did some reading and they have another product too. Curious, how much is the software if one is only looking for about a 10% addition? Maybe just a little more response? You did check to see the price of the item mentioned was under $30 US, right?
 

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Bob,

I re-read the first question on the post, and the answer given *exactly* answered the question. The wording may have upset you, maybe iwantaviggen should have said a *product* he found at MP.

He did answer the question, however if you believe there is a better way to accomplish the deed please *document* it and educate us.
 

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Originally posted by soneway:
[qb]He did answer the question, however if you believe there is a better way to accomplish the deed please *document* it and educate us.
[/qb][/b]
First thing you need to do is more accurately define 'the deed'.....

As Bob has explained, this device will not get you any more boost and any more power (unlike fitting an MBC to an earlier T5 car - still at the expense of APC control ), other than the tiny bit earlier to give a slighty better low end reponse to aid low end spool up.

Great if that's your desired objective.


But if the desire is to fit a MBC to get higher boost and more power, as on an earlier T5 car, then no, as has been said a MBC won't work with T7.
The software has to be modified to achieve this.
 

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Thanks for the kind words Aeropilot!

Soneway - First, I wasn't upset with Iwantaviggen. I just wanted him to know that the use of MBC's, in general, is nothing new, and that the use of an SMBC in series with the BPC, was first suggested by a fellow named Dean, who posts quite frequently on the 9-5 and Performance boards of another forum. There's not much to an SMBC and I'm sure anyone with elementary mechanical skills could build one. As to your question about software for your '92 9000, that's a little more complex than software for T5's or T7's, in a certain sense. The '92's use two separate boxes for fueling and ignition - in fact, the ignition box also controls the APC. Whereas the T5 & T7 use just one box for everything. The T5's use the ubiquitous 68000 series Motorola 32-bit processor. The '92's use something called an LH Jetronic controller for the fueling and a DI/APC controller for the boost control and ignition. There aren't many, that I'm familiar with, that do the software for your '92. Perhaps there are others on this board who are more aware than I am of the tuning options.
 

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So when the question was:

Is there a Manual boost controler out there that is compatible with trionic equiped saabs (specificaly T7 for '02MY 9-3)???

I have been looking and they say that manual boost is not recomended with trionic....[/b]
and the reply from the field was:

check it out >> MP came up with a solution...

thats in my car yes t7
it spools up the turbo quicker...
i have yet to install my boost gauge but its set low as to were the ECU doesnt see it....[/b]
Then I don't see why the reply was warranted.

You, on the other hand said:

First thing you need to do is more accurately define 'the deed'.....  

As Bob has explained, this device will not get you any more boost and any more power (unlike fitting an MBC to an earlier T5 car - still at the expense of APC control  ), other than the tiny bit earlier to give a slighty better low end reponse to aid low end spool up.

Great if that's your desired objective.  

But if the desire is to fit a MBC to get higher boost and more power, as on an earlier T5 car, then no, as has been said a MBC won't work with T7.
The software has to be modified to achieve this.[/b]
So you agree it was Great, his objective was stated, and it was answered. And you apparently agree, as you said.

Doing the Deed is my question *back* to you and yours. Both you and Bob seemed to take issue with the answer to the question. The point is if you take issue with it *don't* come back with glittering generalities, as was done, but *ANSWER* the question with a solution that you feel good about. There is nothing in the reply that the guy can use.

"For truly making more power, one can make an elegant choice or a not-so-elegant choice: software that addresses APC, fueling, and timing is the former, while MBC's, negation of APC control, and band-aid approaches to fueling and timing are the latter "

was the reply. Drivel drivel drivel.

Nothing in there that says "here is a better solution, here is the source, and oh by the way here is why it's better.

The purpose of most forums is for information *exchange*. AKA Help. Spreading tips, techniques, and fun stories. Telling someone they are wrong and not giving them an alternative is neither.

I'm old enough and a have a thick enough hide that you won't chase me off by, basically, telling I'm a twit. You Guys must know there are 100x lurkers out there to the posters. Let's not turn them off.

Let me try and help *you* out...

A reply saying; that it doesn't increase boost, and that a different/better (known?) approach to get more performance would be... - OR - gee, that approach has been known to cause engine damage. What are your goals? Do you have a budget? I could give you a couple of suggestions in your price range...

That form of answer is what I expect from *Advanced* SAAB guys that have been there, especially from ADMIN types.

I mean, the objective is to keep us (SAAB guys)all together, right???

still smiling!
 

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soneway, your last response is uncalled for, rude, and not what we want to see here .

Robert added valuable further information, as did aeropilot. They both tried to be helpful and for their efforts have earned public ridicule from you.

I suggest you calm down, read the replies rationally in the spirit of the AUP then apologise.
5.2 Manner
· Be nice to each other!
· Exchange ideas in a civil and measured manner and to avoid "flames" (angry, mean-spirited posts)
· Assume goodwill and hold fire on the assumption that most misunderstandings arise from the text-based format of the discussion rather than from negative intent on the part of others
· Practice good posting manners and refrain from dominating conversations with endless sequential posts and self-gratifying boasting
· Learn to listen to written words and the person behind those words[/b]
 

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Perhaps I could have been a little clearer....let me expand a bit! In a very limited sense, the engine management system for the '92's is more complex than a T7 - the T7 has the whole engine management integrated into one box/chip, whereas it takes two separate elements with a '92. On a control design level, the T7 is much more complex and difficult. It also represents hundreds of thousands of man-hours in design and research. An elegant solution for tuning a T7 engine would recognize the beauty of this design and work within it. Those hundreds of thousands of man-hours that went into the design includes many researchers at engineering universities, such as at Linkoping. To think that one lone person is going to come up with some sort of 'trick' or 'deed' that will circumvent and better a design that is the product of many skilled engineers, to me, represents the height of hubris. Adding things like MBC's to get more boost, only reflects an ignorance in how the T7 actually works. It's natural to want more performance from an engine, and with Saab engines, there is some room for safely raising the level. But, unfortunately, there is no quick and inexpensive way to do this safely. It's part of the price all us speed-freaks have to pay in order to have one of the most advanced engine management systems, anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
WOW! I never knew this post would generate such a comotion!

I get it guys!
Thanks!

I'll just remain with my original plans to put in perf. exhaust and stage 2 chip once I have the cash in a year and also warranty outage.
 

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Originally posted by soneway:
[qb]So you agree it was Great, his objective was stated, and it was answered.  And you apparently agree, as you said.

[/qb][/b]
Actually, none of your stated assumtions are correct in context....


C'est la Vie......
 

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oops i guess....


so it doesnt incres boost.. figured that out.. i know its not an actual mbc... but i do think i answerd the question asked......
 

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i called mp perfromance to cancel my order of thier smbc and i was just gunna get a dawes device mbc+A but i got to talking to the guy on the phone and the series boost controller will allow the change in psi. Because you can adjust the length of time that the wastegate is closed it allows more/less pressure to build before the wastegate will open. Now i have heard counters to this product because it goes in between the compressor and BPC that the ecu will try and cut down the boost but i am not sure. - a frinds email to me

is this the same as what you were saying?
 

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I think that the deal with a T7 car is that although a mbc can bring up the pressure, when connected to bypass the bpc, the ECU will close the electronic throttle accordingly to get a set value on air flow. Therefore, even if there is nore boost, the engine will make about the same overall power.

Then, they will recommend setting up the mbc in series with the BPC, which will help hold the wastegate closed a little longer to help the turbo spool up quicker. I did this on my T5 9-3 a few years back and was not happy with the throttle feel, and boost spike it gave.

I think you should save the money you would spend on this product and put it towards a quality tuned ECU.
 
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