[woodchukker]

Hey,

I am embarking on a full overhaul of both front and rear suspension after one of my front springs broke. I have an '04 vector with sports suspension, which I have decided is too harsh a ride, so I will not be replacing with originals.

Eibach Pro kit, Koni FSD's, Powerflex Bushes everywhere. The bushes are a big old job but I reckon it will be worth it.

Anyone had any experience with any of this to share?

 

[deano93tid]

If you are thinking the ride was harsh with the original springs then you are going to hate any changes to the suspension, I have replaced my standard springs with Pi springs which drop 35 mm all round which is the same as the Eibach kit would be and it is a lot firmer than before, handles better but you will feel more imperfections in the road than before.

 

[jezz1]

Using Powerflex bushes throughout will also give a harsher ride. The small rubber bushes collectively soften the ride a little; you can replace a couple of different bushes with polyurethane ones and not notice a deterioration in ride comfort, but change them all and you will notice it.

 

[landyacht]

Mmmmm,

As per the other Maptun springs thread, i would hesitate to say the factory ride is harsh.
Anything but in my opinion as the new Maptuns i finally have on the car have firmed it all
up and lowered it, but in a good way! I may add the lowering is not daft but just enough.

I know what Dean means about feeling more imperfections in the road but this is not to
the rides detriment as it is still perfectly comfortable enough to enjoy the drive.

I am not after slot car handling and have not even given any thought to doing any
bushes so i cannot comment on this aspect but from my years of fiddling with cars
and having put poly bushes on other cars i suspect it will firm it even more?!

Trev

 

[woodchukker]

Well I hope I am not destroying my car. I am someway through work on the rear, bushes are coming out nicely (good tools help here) although getting hold of a new top mount for the shocks and new spring seat/bump stop is proving tedious.
The rear outer bushes were in need of changing although there was no slop but they were not moving freely.
I am still hoping this work will improve the car, 'Harsh' was probably an overstatement, I don't mind the car being firm but I believe the factory sports dampers have room for improvement and progressive spring will hopefully compliment these.
Anyway I will soon know

 

[woodchukker]

Job done. It took a while because I have not been been working on the car all of the time.
Test drive is about to be done in a few minutes and I will post a few pictures of the work I did, if anyone cares!!

Last thing to be done after this is a four wheel alignment.

 

[the zohan]

Job done. It took a while because I have not been been working on the car all of the time.
Test drive is about to be done in a few minutes and I will post a few pictures of the work I did, if anyone cares!!

Last thing to be done after this is a four wheel alignment.

Nice work, get those pic's up as well, give me a shout if you have any problems with that. 4 wheel alignment and also castor and camber is a must!

 

[woodchukker]

Results and Pics

This was the first time I have worked on a car without a time constraint, so it has taken some time to complete and subsequently I have really enjoyed doing this work.

The result has been great. OK, the car is now firmer/harder which I was well aware of would be the case however, the front seems to handle bad road conditions and sunken drains as good as before if not better. The front is defenitely more controlled in its movement which is great. The rear is a marked improvement mainly due to the old rear outer bushes being reasonably degraded before. Now the rear is firm but soaks up bumps nicely.

Of course show the car a bit of smooth tarmac and booom, sweet as a you like. Nice flat cornering, good feedback and sweet road grip, undoubtably a big step up from stock setup. All this before I have had the wheels aligned so its only gonna get better, it is a bit wrong in the corners right now due to wheel alignment so cant wait for that to be done.

Rear Lower Outer Bush

Rear Bushes - Upper Arm, Lower Arm Inner Bush, Longditudinal Arm Bush

Rear Spring and Shock in place

Front Rear Bush removal - This tool was used for all of the bushes.

Front Rear Bush Old and New

Front Rear and ARB in place

New Front Strut and Rear Shock

Front Strut in place

 

[jezz1]

Very nice work, lots of shiny new pieces :thumbsup:. It looks like you fitted the old droplinks at the front though, were you not tempted to replace them with uprated ones?

 

[woodchukker]

Very nice work, lots of shiny new pieces :thumbsup:. It looks like you fitted the old droplinks at the front though, were you not tempted to replace them with uprated ones?

Thanks for that. The front drop links are only about a year old so are in good condition, I replaced them on the rear. In my opinion uprated ones are over rated at least on the front since both top and bottom attachments are ball joints, there should therefore not be any mechanical slop in them whether they are uprated or not, so the only possible gain would be weight. On the otherhand the rear the drop link is bushed at both ends so could be improved upon.

Funnily enough the rear toe-in link is also bushed but there is no replacement for them apart from a new arm, there is powerflex bushes for this arm on the Vectra C!!! I can only presume that means the arm is slightly different and a possible upgrade could be there for the future also. I wonder if anyone else has made the same conclusion??

 

[jezz1]

Thanks for that. The front drop links are only about a year old so are in good condition, I replaced them on the rear. In my opinion uprated ones are over rated at least on the front since both top and bottom attachments are ball joints, there should therefore not be any mechanical slop in them whether they are uprated or not, so the only possible gain would be weight. On the otherhand the rear the drop link is bushed at both ends so could be improved upon.

You're right that the rear ARB droplinks are bushed at both ends, but the fronts are as well. The knocking noise that worn front droplinks start to make comes from uncontrolled metal-on-metal movement that arises when the rubber wears out.

 

[woodchukker]

OK, I don't know the exact anatomy of the ball joint in question and still maintain that flex or slop here should be all but none existent in those joints. I can't image in the difference is so profound but each to their own. I forked out a good amount of dosh on the parts for this job so saving money here was a no-brainer.
Have you changed these, is there a big difference??
I would definetely be interested in an uprated rear arm and like I said that rear toe-in bar on the Vectra C needs to be looked at

 

[jezz1]

Which arm are you referring to?

 

[woodchukker]

In your picture I think #22, in mine it is #7.
At powerflex ther is no listing for saab 9-3 http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/9-3+(2002-)-2691/1.html
But there is for Vectra C http://www.powerflex.co.uk/products/Vectra+C+(2002-2008)-2690/1.html

I can only assume the arm is slightly different on Vectra C. Presuming the subframe is of the same dimensions then the arm is probably the same length but maybe mounts differently. Not sure if the swing hub on the two cars is identical, I am guessing it is.
There are subtle differences betweeen the two cars, for example the Shock absorber top mount is different. But some parts are very similar, for example I used an opel bump stop on the rear springs, because a saab part was almost ten times as expensive and not available!!! I also used an opel top/thrust bearing on the front strut, again identical but much cheaper.

So back to the point I recon the rear toe-in adjust arm is slightly different in design, but more than likely identical length and the mountings can be replaced with powerflex bushes.

 

[jezz1]

That's got me stumped at the moment... the part numbers from Saab and Vauxhall are different, which strongly implies that the part itself is different as well.

 

[woodchukker]

Yep, absolutely, they are different. If they are the same length though what difference does it make?
The Opel bump stop I used is different from the saab one I took off, but they had the same dimensions where it mattered, so for me it does the job.
The same could very well be the case with this toe-in arm. The best thing to do would be a physical comparison.
We all need more powerflex bushes, right??

 

[Rickl]

The toe in arm from the vauxhall/opel (vectra) is different in that the Saab one has a balljoint where it connects to the trailing arm whereas the vectra has a bush. Also the inner bush on the Saab is bigger. I think this all has to do with the Reaxs (however you spell it!!) system. For those with a Saab 93 Haynes manual, they incorrectly printed a picture of the vectra toe-in arm on page 10*11 diagram 13.35. Diagram 13.34 shows the correct larger inner bush. Note I also used the opel/vauxhall rear bump stop when my Saab ones disintegrated. No idea of cost as my daughter's boyfriend supplied and fitted them, and a load of other stuff (he's a mechanic with a local police force and does 'stuff' at little cost i.e cash for parts at trade price and a crate of cider!!). I still support my local indy for servicing though as my daughter's boyfriend can have a long waiting list, depending on police requirements, friend requirements etc.
HTH
Rick

 

[woodchukker]

Do you know if the Toe-In arm is interchangeable then?

 

[Rickl]

Do you know if the Toe-In arm is interchangeable then?

I'm guessing yes, but maybe find a friendly Vectra owner and measure his. Might you lose the Reaxs benefit if you changed? If the part no for the hub carrier is the same then I would think it would fit ok. Sorry not much help with this one I'm afraid.

 

[jezz1]

I'm guessing yes, but maybe find a friendly Vectra owner and measure his. Might you lose the Reaxs benefit if you changed? If the part no for the hub carrier is the same then I would think it would fit ok. Sorry not much help with this one I'm afraid.

I have a Signum - same suspension as the Vectra-C. Which measurement did you have in mind?