LPG conversion
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Don't bother doing it. The conversion cost for a system that can handle the turbo installation will run to at least £1500. The time to break even, let alone start to save money will be something around 40,000 miles (by which time your car will be up to 215k). It won't really add value to the car and unless you have a 'donut' tank where the spacesaver is you will lose luggage space.
I like the idea of LPG in principle but the economics don't add up unfortunatly.
Nick.
I like the idea of LPG in principle but the economics don't add up unfortunatly.
Nick.
As one of the few LPG users here it depends on how you view the economics.
I didn't want to add value, break even for me was 21,000 miles. My view was that the car (Volvo) is a solid car, no rust, runs the same today @ 140,000 miles as it did when we bought it at 62,000 miles and so we have no plans to change the car. The cost of conversion was about £1500 but I'd have expected to pay more for that to change the car to say a diesel.
My vehicle was converted at 120,000 miles and it has only just failed it's first MOT due to worn ball joint and split CV boot. Like I said, no plans to change a perfectly good car so for me the LPG conversion was worth it.
175,000 miles I think I'd tend to agree though, that's on the high side already but lets take mileage out of the equation, my questions would simply be:-
1. Is it planned to keep the car with or without conversion? What's the exterior/interior like, will it last the distance?
2. Is the car mechanically sound to the point where you're not expecting to be doing more major work, head gasket, timing chains, etc etc. Some people feel that any major mechanical work is a reason to punt the car rather than treat it as a cost of ownership compared with depreciation costs.
3. Is there an LPG filling station nearby? It can be annoying if you have to go a long way out of your way in your home area.
David.
I didn't want to add value, break even for me was 21,000 miles. My view was that the car (Volvo) is a solid car, no rust, runs the same today @ 140,000 miles as it did when we bought it at 62,000 miles and so we have no plans to change the car. The cost of conversion was about £1500 but I'd have expected to pay more for that to change the car to say a diesel.
My vehicle was converted at 120,000 miles and it has only just failed it's first MOT due to worn ball joint and split CV boot. Like I said, no plans to change a perfectly good car so for me the LPG conversion was worth it.
175,000 miles I think I'd tend to agree though, that's on the high side already but lets take mileage out of the equation, my questions would simply be:-
1. Is it planned to keep the car with or without conversion? What's the exterior/interior like, will it last the distance?
2. Is the car mechanically sound to the point where you're not expecting to be doing more major work, head gasket, timing chains, etc etc. Some people feel that any major mechanical work is a reason to punt the car rather than treat it as a cost of ownership compared with depreciation costs.
3. Is there an LPG filling station nearby? It can be annoying if you have to go a long way out of your way in your home area.
David.
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1,436 Posts
I bought my car with 190k miles on the clock. The gearbox failed 10k later (let's put it down to over-enthusiastic previous owners and poor servicing). I replaced the box. But the car was still so good I reckoned that I'd keep it and convert it which I did at 210k miles. The engine needed replacing 10k miles later (nothin to do with the conversion). Then the turbo failed. By now I was in too deep and stuck with it. 80k miles later I'm pleased that I did. I have a very quick and comfortable car that is wonderfully economical. I trust the main components (oh, did I say I've also replaced the alternator?) will now be good for another 50k - 100k miles.
However, with hindsight were I doing this again, I'd start with a late model Aero with no more than 100k miles on the clock and a full service history and thus limited risk
However, with hindsight were I doing this again, I'd start with a late model Aero with no more than 100k miles on the clock and a full service history and thus limited risk
Out of interest, am I right in thinking that the Saab trionic ECU gets bypassed when on gas? That's how our SGI system works on the Volvo. If that's the case, what knock protection do you get if any other than getting it mapped correctly. I guess at least with LPG you know that the octane rating is around 105 so should provide for good boost I guess.
David.
David.
I had a long hard look at LPG for my FPT a couple of years ago. After researching many different types of LPG system, I think I discovered that the best systems use the signals from the Trionic system. I can't remember the exact details now, but BPV in Slough seem to have done a number of conversions on turbos and were conversant with the difficulties. The thing to remember is that the proper systems for a turbo are more complex and expensive than most.
That's what I'm wondering Mark. On the system we have on the Volvo, the ECU just piggy backs onto the petrol ECU and when it switches to gas, it just cuts out the petrol injectors and uses the injector signals to fire the gas injectors. On an NA car, it's somewhat more predictable I guess as to timing and fuelling but a little harder when you add a further parameter of boost into the mapping.
In general the car's in very good shape, it's just milege thats putting us off.
I know there has a kind of mixed reaction about this. I also spoke to her about it again, and now she's bit dodgy about it simply because of the miles.
Because she know's she would have to keep it for a long time. But some of think because of the turbo it's harder to do, oh well.
Axl, without wishing to repeat myself, forget the cost issue (as long as that's not a contentious one in your own mind) and forget the turbo issue (it won't be the first turbo LPG car).
Main thing is, do you want to keep the car for the extra 30 to 40,000 miles that it will take to break even and then beyond to reap the benefit?
Coupled to this basic question is that once you have this done, you will be pretty much obligated to fix anything else which breaks otherwise you've just thrown the cost of a conversion away which is why you need to be sure that this is a car you want to keep. What's the head gasket like? timing chains? ancilliary components? Will you be thinking in 10,000 miles time, that you fancy something completely different or younger?
The mileage wouldn't be my main worry, as long as you want to keep the car, parts can always be changed.
You should also be advised that you might become the victim of "pump rage" as the plonkers that design forecourts think that it's really sensible to put the LPG pumps (sometimes just one) in the same place as all the others which can mean on a busy forecourt that you end up parking the car and walking round trying to find the flipping pump or better still, you queue for a specific pump and then pull up at the back, they always stick them at the rear leaving a petrol/diesel pump wasted in front. Then wait for someone to come up behind and ask angrily why you haven't pulled forward.
I can tell you though that LPG customers are very sociable at the pumps, we're always after saving another 5p per litre at the cheapest LPG station in the area and often chat about range, tanks and conversions.
David.
Main thing is, do you want to keep the car for the extra 30 to 40,000 miles that it will take to break even and then beyond to reap the benefit?
Coupled to this basic question is that once you have this done, you will be pretty much obligated to fix anything else which breaks otherwise you've just thrown the cost of a conversion away which is why you need to be sure that this is a car you want to keep. What's the head gasket like? timing chains? ancilliary components? Will you be thinking in 10,000 miles time, that you fancy something completely different or younger?
The mileage wouldn't be my main worry, as long as you want to keep the car, parts can always be changed.
You should also be advised that you might become the victim of "pump rage" as the plonkers that design forecourts think that it's really sensible to put the LPG pumps (sometimes just one) in the same place as all the others which can mean on a busy forecourt that you end up parking the car and walking round trying to find the flipping pump or better still, you queue for a specific pump and then pull up at the back, they always stick them at the rear leaving a petrol/diesel pump wasted in front. Then wait for someone to come up behind and ask angrily why you haven't pulled forward.
I can tell you though that LPG customers are very sociable at the pumps, we're always after saving another 5p per litre at the cheapest LPG station in the area and often chat about range, tanks and conversions.
David.
Yea I did a search to and had a good look at what other have said/did.
We spoke about it the last couple of night's too, and now were just going "shelve" the idea.
The timing chain & ancilleries need done, but thats about the only mechanical trait needing done.
Thanks to all for the info
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We spoke about it the last couple of night's too, and now were just going "shelve" the idea.
The timing chain & ancilleries need done, but thats about the only mechanical trait needing done.
Thanks to all for the info
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