[pomlpt]

I have replaced wastegate actuator in my 9000CS 2.0lpt maptune stage1 to cure uneven boost problem. The replacement is HKS actuator with 0.8bar specification. The base boost is adjusted to 0.8bar. Max boost reading goes up to 19-20psi.

Previously, max boost reading was 15-16psi, thus, ~3psi increase.
I emailed to Johnny(maptun) about 0.8bar base boost setting and he said it is too high and the trionic will not be able to cut boost if engine knock is detected. At the moment, I adjust the HKS actuator to 0.5bar(that is as far as i can go). I remember that to standard base boost for my car is 0.4bar. I have questions.

1. I thought APC and Trionic box control the boost pressure. With the remapped ECU, max boost pressure goes way beyond the base boost,why increase base boost also increase max boost?

2. The HKS actuator is 0.8bar specification. Should I continue to use it and set it at 0.5bar or should i go to buy new one and set base boost to 0.4bar as standard?


Cheers

 

[maartenvandorst]

If Trionic detects knock, it will do three things to solve the problem: change ignition timing, dump additional fuel and lower turboboost.

Base boost is the lowest level boost can be reduced to if something goes wrong. In your case when for some reason knocking occurs, boost will be reduced to 0.8 instead of the safer 0.4 level.

Max boost is programmed in the Trionic software.

 

[mark e]

Answering the easy question first:

You should ideally choose an actuator with a base pressure a little below your desired base boost. This ensures that there is a reasonable amount of preload on it. If you don't have enough preload, then the wastegate will not seal properly.

I am unsure about how exactly Trionic defines the maximum allowable boost. Certainly you can have an increase in boost from re-programming, but also, for any given software mapping, it would also appear that raising the base boost also raises the maximum boost .

Similarly, if you use a bleed valve after the APC solenoid, the max boost also increases, which suggests that Trionic doesn't make full use of the MAP sensor for boost control in T5. Rather, it uses the MAP info to control the fuelling. Perhaps it has preset mapping of the control signal to the APC solenoid that relies on the specified base boost setting.

 

[maartenvandorst]

Originally posted by Mark E:
[qb]I am unsure about how exactly Trionic defines the maximum allowable boost. Certainly you can have an increase in boost from re-programming, but also, for any given software mapping, it would also appear that raising the base boost also raises the maximum boost       .[/qb][/b]

To make this subject even more confusing, this is what WIS says about it:

'If the basic charging pressure is too high, negative boost pressure adaptation takes place and the maximum boost pressure cannot be attained.'

 

[pomlpt]

I've just ordered new wastegate actuator from forgemotorsport.

The car is still running fine (plenty of

) with the HKS set at 0.5bar. Anyway, I think safety first, so 0.4bar base boost and appropriate actuator. I will miss the extra

, .

Thanks Mark E and Maarten for the comments

 

[zeke]

Maarten,
I'm not sure who/what WIS is, but the information is corroborated by Dr. Boost. That is, too high a base boost setting will result in negative adaptation and a lower peak boost pressure.

 

[maartenvandorst]

WIS=Workshop Information System.
It's a database/programme where dealers can find information about SAAB vehicles.

 

[mowgli]

Pomlpt,

I hope that you have more luck than I did with Forge, the item they sent was too short in the actuator bar, didn't come with the turnbuckle end and didn't have the mounting bracket. I ended up getting a std one from the main dealer.

Good luck though

 

[mark e]

I've bought a few actuators in my time and none of them came with the turnbuckle end as it is vehicle/turbo specific. Most actuators can alos be asupplied with different rod lengths- you need to specify the correct length for yours

HTH

 

[mowgli]

The ones that Forge supply can be supplied 1 inch too short or approx 2 inches (50mm) too long. Been down that road, not good. I was fairly specific, car type and engine etc, even followed their website advert, didn't work.

Just don't want anybody else to have the same problems, there is no point in that at all.

Unless of course that they have learned from their mistake and sorted out the problems...

 

[pomlpt]

hi mowgli

I should received the forge actuator within couple of days. I will look out for the problems that you have mentioned.

By the way, did you complain back to forgemotorsport and how did they fix the problem for you?

Cheers
Pom

 

[satha]

If there is no turnbuckle or the rod is too shot, you can have it machined (not too difficult). I did this before.

 

[mowgli]

Pomlpt and 270HP,

I got the money back and they did say they were very sorry. Shame really, it looked gorgeous as well, lovely piece of metalwork.

I could of got the longer one and had it machined, but, what happens to the warranty then?? Also, no car means no

and thats just no good at all.

 

[pomlpt]

Hi

Just got the package from Forgemotorsport.
The actuator looks great. I've got the turnbuckle alright. The rod, as mowgli said, is actually 1.5inch longer than original one.

I will have to bring it to local shop for some modification. Uhmm.. too bad it is not plug&play.

Will report again when I have this done.

Cheers
Pom

I took picture comparing the forge and original wastegate. You can see it at

mysaab

[edited to make picture link work]

 

[pomlpt]

mowgli was right !

Not only the rod is too long. The pressure test revealed that the spring rate they put in this actuator is at 1.1bar(16psi) instead of 5-10psi according to my order.(Their invoice detail shows 5-10psi spring,thus i did not make order mistake) .
As a result, this forgemotorsport wastegate autuator is useless. I will email them to see their response.

pom

 

[peter messenger]

maptun in sweden upgrade the standard saab actuator. i have one fitted on my stage 3 9000, it works perfectly. cost about £70 on exchange basis.

 

[pomlpt]

After brief email exchanged, forgemotorsport confirmed to send me new rod and lighter spring. Hopefully nothing goes wrong again this time.

I'm thinking about upgrading to maptun stage3. Anyone with 2.0lpt autobox have done stage3? Looking for some comments here.

Pom

 

[frankem3]

I'm very interested in knowing what your tuning method was ...for determining the proper adjustment on the wastegate. Your max boost, vice your minimum boost.

I'm at stage 3 now, using Maptune software, I have my td04 ready to bolt on, but would prefer getting the output calibrated according to a standard of some sort.

DC

 

[California Saab Tuner]

If you're looking for a TD04 setup to compare to DC, base boost on my Viggen is about 8 psi. It comes with an uprated actuator as standard though. So it will depend on which actuator you picked up. Also curious, which TD04 did you pick up anyway? Both have the same compressor wheel, but the Viggen's has the slightly smaller intake and exhaust inlets. I believe they both also share exhaust turbines, and that it's just the smaller inlet to the turbine that differs.

Might be best to compare to a car with the same turbo if it's not the Viggen unit. (IE Aero, or someone else with the 2.0 6cm unit.)

Cheers,
Dubbya

 

[frankem3]

Actually Adrian I appreciate the comparison, but my question was more to the "how" base boost and max boost are being measured, and tested.

DC