[jameswarlow]

Hi guys

Seems we may be in luck with high costs of insurance could be set to go down for men and up for women if new European Law comes in.

I get e-mails through Martin's Money at money saving expert which has reported the following - sorry had to cut and paste as in my e-mail so no link......

Urgent! Poss. 50%+ women's car insurance hikes
New 'men and women pay same' rule could change insurance for everyone
The European Court will rule on 1 March whether insurers break discrimination laws by pricing men and women differently. If, as many expect, it decides both must pay the same, we may see immediate, huge price changes on new policies.
Don't always expect prices to meet in the middle. Costs for the currently cheaper gender could rise by more than the other drops by (see MSE news).
Car insurance warning to women
Women, especially if younger currently pay less than men, as they typically have fewer accidents. 17-30 year-old men pay an avg £2,050; women nearly £800 less (usually evens out at 40+).
So younger women could face massive hikes in March, while younger men may see prices drop slightly.
• Act quickly. If your price may rise and you're due to renew, do it ASAP to beat the deadline (nowt's lost if nothing changes).
• Not at renewal? Urgently check if you can get suitable, cheaper, insurance by switching anyway as prices are already up 41%. If you can save, ask if you'd get a pro-rata refund for cancelling your existing policy (some charge a fee, so factor that in) you could get a new cheaper policy starting now, then be on the lower price for longer if the Court does rule.
• Speedily find the cheapest insurance. First combine results of comparison sites MoneySup* and Gocompare* to get a wide range of quotes quickly, then add Aviva* and Direct Line*, two major players they miss. Finally try cashback sites. Step-by-step guide: Cheap Car Insurance
And it's not just car insurance...

He's also reported the following on compulsory insurance even if off road:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/insu...insurance-rules

Perhaps after all we may see some of these silly prices eventually drop.

Women may....be safer drivers but my son doesn't agree since a 23 year old woman pulled out of office car park hitting him braodside and causing £5750 damage on his very rare Honda. They've written it off and now the arguments begin. Her insurers want to pay £2300 for car which was one of 200 made. There's only one for sale through all online sites and forums and that has much higher mileage and they want 3
£4500...............watch the sparks fly shortly

 

[baxlin]

This equalisation also applies to Annuities, Life assurance, Health insurance and other general insurance, such as household.

So it's very far-reaching, and IMHO flies in the face of risk-based insurance, which while the very basis of insurance, is seen by some (obviously the authors of the new regs!) to be discriminatory. But it is a fact, for instance that a healthy woman has a longer life expectancy than a healthy male has. And on the other hand, because of "female health issues" they will make more claims on Health insurance.

Motor insurance is just one factor, it seems.

 

[jameswarlow]

On the flip side it may only help the under 30's as as you get older you are supposed to be better experience drivers? Well you'd think so.

I agree its now taken away the risk factor which is what insurance is actually all about isn't it?

Same way as buying a washing machine. Do you buy a cheap one and hope it doesn't pack up in 3 - 5 years or do you pay the extra and have one that virtually guarantees 5 years life. Thats risk.

Now it is saying that perhaps there should be some incentives to buy the more expensive machine - less waste to recycle.............and it goes on.

Perhaps though this may help the younger Aero drivers????

 

[quinophex]

If we take this to a much further logical conclusion... everyone should pay the same for insurance no matter what... As (generally speaking!) a woman will not be paid the same or have the same career opportunities as a man, therefore asking people what their trade is would be unfair if you calculate risk on that... Then, discriminating on the basis of age... well, that's not fair either...

Even so, I'm starting to think that the price of running a car is going to get prohibitively high in the next few years for many people, I know I'm starting to consider if I could move house and get rid of the car.

 

[jameswarlow]

I would love to do that quino but even though I work from home I still have to go out to see my clients and carrying my laptop, £20k total station for land surveys etc wouldn't on my bike (which is missing at the moment supporting a uni student!). I really enjoy walking but.....................................my clients are all over the place!

Nice thought though and I see where you are coming from - i though we already had equality for women on wages and jobs etc?

Al the same though Europe is trying to dictate to us again on what we can and cannot do...........you know Cornish Pasties from Cornwall, Melton Mowbray prok pies only from Melton. I always say 'in that case keep brussels in Brussels!

Where Geoff when yu want him for a leg puller

 

[quinophex]

In theory we have equality but every time you compare pay for women doing the same job as a man they are paid something like 20-30% less than the man, along with a much greater proportion of the female workforce are in minimum wage jobs compared to men. I've been lucky up until recently as my job was working from home doing computery things so the running costs on a 9-5 auto were not really significant due to low mileage but I've just lost that job... I'm dreading getting a replacement job and having to pay for petrol to commute! Hence why thinking if I can relocate somewhere else and give up the car.

 

[jameswarlow]

Oh dear. Sounds like I'm bit luckier than most.

My work is 99% recommendation through client base over past 35 years as I am a specialist in certain areas - in particualr joinery and glazing at top of market so think of the value of your home and I can guarantee I've designed and detailed a conservatory costing more on a private house! Pretty specialised........................normal architecture piece of cake but these top end glass buildings are very complex and I can deal with them from here easily especially if out of UK

 

[Richard_C]

The whole issue had been argued for many years. The Barber case (1991) on equalisation of pensions set off all kinds of challenges. It is generally accepted that you can vary benefits by gender as long as this is based on actuarial data/real experience not just prejudice. If you look at the life expectancy tables (originally produced by the Government actuary, who I always imagine is a Dumbledore-like figure, but now hosted by the office of national statistics) you will see that a man aged 65 would expect to live for another 17.6 years, a women for another 20.24. On that basis, insurers have been able to offer different annuity rates, and pension funds different commutation factors, because the value of the benefit is the same but spread over different periods. Lower pension rates for women are a perceived injsutice, not a real injustice.

If the law changes, car insurance may well be the least of our worries. The whole pension/annuity world will have to change and averaging will make matters worse for men in terms of annual income.

For those of a gloomy disposition, you can see the tables here: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/the...-09'!A1

Look up your age in the left column and the right column gives average life expectancy. They are UK wide figures - there are other tables with regional variations. Remember these are averages: the actuary doesn't call round personally to finish you off on the due date.

Will you outlast your SAAB, or will it outlast you?

 

[Geoff.1951]

For those of a gloomy disposition, you can see the tables here: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/the...-09'!A1

Look up your age in the left column and the right column gives average life expectancy.[/b]

All those numbers!!! Surely the answer is 42?

(Will that do for now, Jim?
Sorry for the delay in joining this one, spending my days completing big extension on my other house. Just finished grouting the ensuite.)

 

[Richard_C]

Hmmm - I did an en suite a couple of years ago. Literally 'floor up' as a water leak before we moved in had rotted the floor. Sat back one evening and thought "That's it, all done bar the grouting". Turns out the grouting took about as long as all the rest put together.

Back to insurance. Guardian running a pretty well-informed article on it today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/feb/1...-price-equality

I have a daughter now 17 and just starting to learn,

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[tonyfisk]

Just finished grouting the ensuite.[/b]

Is that some sort of euphemism, Geoff?

 

[Geoff.1951]

Nice one, CitTone, it is now!

(I'm too tired for a night on the tiles...)


There was something on Radio 4's Moneybox programme today about car insurance - anyone catch it?

 

[tonyfisk]

Sounds like a job for iPlayer (when I get time!)

 

[Geoff.1951]

Nice one, CitTone, it is now!

(I'm too tired for a night on the tiles...)
There was something on Radio 4's Moneybox programme today about car insurance - anyone catch it?[/b]

Caught the repeat. It was about the cost of hire/courtesy cars while a car was in for repair after a prang. Footballer Darren Bent (no, me neither) had a crash in 2007 in his Merc CLS (costs around 70k) and hired an Aston Martin DB9 (costs around £117k) at a daily rate of over £570 plus VAT. ( ) and his insurance Co wouldn't cover the full hire cost of over £63k. Said he should have looked for a closer comparable motor, compared prices, etc.. All went to court, appeals, etc, etc, finally ended with insurers (Allianz) winning. Repairs to his Merc cost around £20k and took 3 months.F ull story is spread over Google.

Not so much an insurance story, more the potential risks in "courtesy" cars.

Probably the only interesting story on Moneybox this century.

 

[jameswarlow]

Nice to see one of these poor poor footballers ending up spending a lot (or a little in their eyes) money. Serves him right!!!!!

He could give a weeks money to charity and never miss it - sorry about little rant.

 

[tonyfisk]

Ye Gods - 20K to repair a Merc....and afterwards, it's still a Merc!

 

[jameswarlow]

Well one insurance company has done us well. My sons rare Honda Civic got smashed up a couple of weeks ago - passenger side stoved in by some woman driver. Engineer checked it and reported back to Elephant .co.uk (Admiral) and told them £5500 so repair so un economical as parts rare. The third parties insurance company, also Admiral called and offered him 2500 and them scrapping car or 2200 and he keeps car! It was insured for £2500.

Bear in mind there were only 200 of this car built Jan 98 - Jun 98 and you see it's rarity. He immediately advertised it on a Honda forum and has already sold in the region of £1300 of stuff such as exhaust, manifold, wheels etc. he has now been offered £450 for seats and an american chap is prepared to pay £300 and $400 to ship out front and rear lip spoilers and rear mid spoiler! Shame is the car was concoures condition. We've now estimated that he'll have made around £2300 out of scrapping a car the insurance company said was worth £300 scrap value. Win Win Win this time.

 

[quinophex]

Is he happy about the situation though? I mean, is he going to end up in profit over this? If so good on him.

 

[jameswarlow]

Long story quino but like this........................... I know it's all off topic but worth explaining.

Bought rarest Honda you can get 1994 Civic VTi 1.6 SiR2 FEELS tuned 189 bhp (if you Google those words you'll instantly find it in bright blue - no turbo & very first real type R) for £4.5k (the FEELS kit fitted in Japan at new and still worth around £12k) car revved right round to 9800 rpm.

Did a swap on that for an immacualte 1998 Civic VTiS (only 200 ever made Jan 98 - June 98) + got £2k cash in swap. (The other guy wanted the parts alone - suspension new even now costs £2850 and we worry about Hirsch cost)

SO VTiS valued about £2.5k...................got it so far? Still keeping at £4.5k

The new car has been written off by woman driver and insurance company have siad £2500 for car and they'll scrap it or £2200 for car and we keep car (they say £300 scrap value). So we say we'll keep the car so overal my son is now down £300 from what he originally paid for the first car 12 months ago.

This is the interesting bit - as soon as he agree to accept car and money he advertised this well known car on a Honda forum. Within 3 hours he had received 20 messages and 12 e-mails requesting parts which have now been confirmed. Adding these parts up without delivery costs so far he will make as of last night about £1700 so far which is spoilers, wheels, manifolds, exhaust, drivers stripped door, steering wheel. There is still the otion Jordan black and yellow leather interior, lights, brakes, suspension and so on so we are looking at perhaps aother £1000.

With that all about the total figure now rises to £6900 less original car paid for of £4500 leaves so far £2400 profit!

Sorry for long explanation but I'm gob smacked realy

 

[quinophex]

No problem, glad to hear he's sorted out financially at least! he also has a gearbox and engine to sell out of that... then I'm not sure where scrap metal prices are at the moment as it changes every 5 minutes but if you can hold on to the shell for a while someone may give you £50-£100 to take it away :crazy: