[ylee coyote]

One of the topics at our recent scottish meet was the topic of TCS
we know it can be problimatical and a pita but I like the way it works
I put down my general lack of driveline maladies to the fact that the TCS stops me from doing stuff that will break things.. also I do get a lot out of my tyres ...typically 25-30 k out of a front set

Now talking to Alanb he has the opposite opinion and he always switches it off as "it always gets in the way ..."
now when the tcs comes in in my car the tyres are usually spinning already and it just takes the edge off my exuberence but it would seem that other tcs's have amuch more draconian effect ...
I also found on the 1/4 mile my slowest times were with it switched off !!

 

[wrighar]

Well I like it, the '91 isn't able to be switched and the '93 does have the switch wired yet..

I've found that the TCS on the Aero and the Carly works well and I've put it to good use in the wet, dry and snow.

Andrew

 

[arawson]

I'm also a TCS fan and find it adds to rather than detracts from everyday driving...though it seems to cut in less since I fitted the Bilstein dampers and strut brace.

 

[James]

I like the wayit works on my 9-5. As Ylee said, it doesn't so much stop the wheels spinning at all costs, but rather it stops things from getting silly.

But mine's never gone wrong, though - I might change my views if it did

 

[markcanderson]

It was terrible on my 9000 Griffin...

As you'll recall I did a bit of tuning to that car (gas flowed head, Abbott APC, Abbott wastegate actuator, full 3'' exhaust system including downpipe, sports filter etc..) and every time you stepped on the accelerator, rather than gently fed it in, especially exiting a corner, the TCS system just shut down the throttle by half and took an age to give you it back... you ended up kangarooing down the road.

So much for smooth throttle control or being able to balance the car on the throttle.

 

[adrian]

Never had TCS and dont think I ever will on a 9000 to to the cost and reliablity issues.

However, when the 9k first came with TCS What Car commented on how good the system was - I still have the original What Car group test of the first 2.3T.

 

[shv]

A local saab nut told me that the TCS on his 300 HP MY92 9000 was ajustible?

He was very happy!

 

[ylee coyote]

It was terrible on my 9000 Griffin...[/b]

The experience mark was experiencing was exactly as alanb described..
this "overacting" of the tcs ...
maybe there is a fault ?...perhaps it just needs calibrating
there cerainly seems to be two camps ....

 

[swintooh]

Well just a thought, maybe TCS/ESP systems measure the body roll, so they behave "properly" only when suspension is much stiffer than the boaty originals (bar Aero)?
I've driven a MY03 9-5 2.3lpt auto estate (standard soft suspension) and TCS was hopeless, I flicked the switch immediately to return to normal (TCS off)...

 

[markcanderson]

Originally posted by Adam 9-5 2.3t auto:
[qb]Well just a thought, maybe TCS/ESP systems measure the body roll, so they behave "properly" only when suspension is much stiffer than the boaty originals (bar Aero)?
I've driven a MY03 9-5 2.3lpt auto estate (standard soft suspension) and TCS was hopeless, I flicked the switch immediately to return to normal (TCS off)... [/qb][/b]

Hmm... not on a 9000. Just takes ABS wheel speed averages and when it detects slip (i.e. a false co-relation between back and front) the system tells the electronic throttle to back off.

The suspension theory could operate tho if the car transfers a lot of weight back off the front wheels when accelerating, causing the fronts to go a little light.

In my case tho.. I had full Abbott suspension, including springs, Koni adjustables (dialed up on the rear), Abbott rear ARB, plus poly mounts all round including on the ARBs, gearbox, wishbones and engine torque arm.

 

[billj]

My 1990 CD 2.3T also suffered from the huge overreaction under TCS, with it seemingly taking ages to get throttle control back. Very disconcerting when overtaking

and I knew I could have backed off a little in the absence of TCS to regain grip.

This was, I believe, the first year of TCS (it was a '91 model) and indeed of the 2.3T engine. Mark, was yours a '92 (I seem to remember)? Perhaps the TCS evolved over time. However, this still leaves Alan's '95 Aero behaving oddly in comparison to Ylee's '94 Aero.

 

[sj]

I'm sure it has improved over the years, on my 9-5, it doesn't interrupt anything except when really necessary and it does it very progressively then.
I have experienced other systems which must have been a 'safety measure' to frighten you into not trying too hard. I had an Omega which wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding but when the TCS came on it just turned the engine OFF/back ON/OFF again.

I'm sure the pitching and lurching was far more unsettling to any handling 'moment' than the wheelspin would have been

 

[arawson]

The TCS in my M95 Aero seems very consistent in its application and only buts in when really necessary...can get the tyres to squeal on a fast take off with the 'TCS' light on and no other outward signs of interference.

The system fitted to the Vectra SRI was very random in my experience and in the wet it was safer to switch it off and contol the wheel spin with your foot!

 

[scminks]

i think its the dogs.....!great in the wet
simon

 

[alan_b]

Very interesting that there are such different opinions. I certainly find that it over-reacts to the point of being dangerous at times. I'd never, for example, have it on when overtaking a car in the wet in second of third gear for fear of losing

when I needed it.

At Elvington I intend doing a lap with in on and a lap with it off to see what the results are. Perhaps Ylee could do the same?

Alanb

 

[1989agoodvintage]

I can't say I love my TCS, I'll porbably get rid of it eventually in order to expand my APC upgrade options.

Since upgrading the suspension I've rarely provoked it into action. Certainly I've never experienced the extended throttle loss that many people describe, my CD never seems to rob me of the throttle for more than a split second. Perhaps it's due to driving style, I always tend to feed the throttle rather than stamp on it. Something I learnt to do in the Carly ... which didn't have TCS.

 

[alan_b]

I had the ideal opportunity to test the TCS today on a long, steep hill up to Bath Uni. in the wet: Second gear and I floor it. Wheels spin for what seems like ages and then TCS wakes up. At least half the power is immediately cut. After about two seconds TCS backs off. Wheels spin up again and TCS cuts power in half again. And so the cycle continues...

Alanb

 

[billj]

Originally posted by Alan_b:
[qb]At Elvington I intend doing a lap with in on and a lap with it off to see what the results are.  Perhaps Ylee could do the same?[/qb][/b]

I'd suggest more than one lap each. Perhaps a session with and one without since you might struggle to get consistent lap times on your first track day - there will be many other variables. Also bear n mind that if it's dry the circuit will be very grippy and TCS might not make a great deal of difference anyway.

 

[Ben2411]

I was happy to realise my aero lacks TCS, had it on my CSE where it had a habit of engaging limp home mode when i least suspected - much happier letting the tyres spin up!

 

[hannick]

I was wondering if the presence of TCS affected my ECU upgrade options to my standard spec 1995 9000 Aero.

Do the suppliers of ECU upgrades advise not to upgrade beyond a certain level if TCS is fitted ? Anyone know ?