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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

My 93 tid150 starting lacking power and not pulling in low revs but kicked on at 2000rpm as before, now the eml has come on. The garage checked for a fault and got `air intake problem`(sorry don`t know code number) and after a full day at the garage they`re still at a loss as to what`s causing it. They have removed the front end and checked all day looking for even a pinhole somewhere in a hose, given up, to start again tomorrow.
I`m getting a call from them tomorrow after they start afresh on the problem.
In the meantime, if anyone is able to offer a possible cause please do.....

Thanks
 

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I believe the code quoted refers to Intake Air System leak.

You haven't stated what actions the garage took when they 'investigated' the issue. I'd start with the EGR valve, take it off, check for cleanliness. Then the MAP sensor. Then I'd have a look at the MAF sensor, though if you take this off and decide it needs cleaning, only use an approved MAF sensor cleaner otherwise you may damage it.

Then start looking for split hoses, particularly the vacuum hose, intercooler hoses and even the intercooler itself. The problems you are having, might only surface when the engine has reached full operating temperature.

Also, check around the throttle body for signs of leakage.

All of these checks are within the capabilities of any competent vehicle owner. If you need any pointers, youtube and google are your friends.
 

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even though the MAP sensor is located in the inlet manifold,it gets all crudded up,take it out an clean it,with carb /electrical contact cleaner leave it to dry..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Caddyman and aerojon, I`ll pass these possible fixes to my guy at the garage although he seems pretty clued up and has checked the intercooler and all associated hoses etc and is as frustrated as I am!
Will let you know how things pan out and thanks for sharing info
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ok, swirl flaps all working apparently and garage now thinking problem must be at inlet manifold but warned me that it's a long job getting fuel pump and other bits and bobs out of the way just to get there to have a look, getting the car back from them today. Should I mention maf and map sensors to them first?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Forgot to include maf and map sensor problems ruled out by garage as they say this would show as a more specific fault code on their diagnosis software
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No they didn't! I trust them but tempted to have a go myself when the car is returned before they(maybe) get it back
Thanks
 

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I think sometimes, there's a bit too much reliance on diagnostics alone. EGR and MAP sensor should really be bread and butter checks for mechanics working on this engine. Indeed any Saab/Fiat/Vauxhall/Alfa owner with this engine, should familiarise themselves with the EGR/MAP removal and cleaning procedure. I do my own every six months. If like me you have a spare EGR, this job takes just 20 minutes from start to finish swapping them over and then you can clean your spare EGR at your leisure and then chuck it in the boot as a hot spare.
 

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Just to clarify, the guy in the youtube videos in the links I posted mentioned about a missing gasket from the EGR valve after he split it removing the four screws that join the two halves together. I just want to make it clear, there is NO gasket that sit between the two halves. I have two genuine Pierburg EGR's, one made in 2007 and one made in 2011, neither have a gasket.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I use BP ultimate and have done for the last 40,000 miles.....would I still get enough crud building up to cause the issue in this thread and get a map sensor similar to the pic in the previous post?
I naively assumed using BP ultimate would have avoided these deposits. I suppose there could have been deposits when I got the car 40,000 ago and a small, additional build up over time has taken it to a problem level ?
Getting EGR and both sensors done soon will update the thread after that....everything crossed !
 

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diesels are dirty engines by their nature,that carbon crud/deposits will still appear..No need to change MAP just clean see post#5..
 

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first if not already done so clean the egr valve thorough as **** can get on the needle where it goes into the electrica/solenoidl housing loads of vids on youtube............mr muscle oven cleaner is good for this then rinse the valve part and spray on carb cleaner allow to dry. It is important you work the valve whislt cleaning....don't forget related pipe work

clean map and maf with electrical contact cleaner take throttle body off use carb cleaner or the likes and whilst the throttle body is off get a torch and have a look inside the manifold estimate the amount of crud build up

imo I would replace or as a temp job as it would throw a code blank the egr valve before even attempting taking the manifold off.

if after looking at everything listed or anything that could be leaking at the manifold then take the manifold off as this will affect power below 2k if blocked.........but a blockage aint a leak !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
So.....
Today I have the car back but no further forward really.
The garage used a bosch diagnostic which pointed to the original `air intake system leak` and also a dpf issue and apparently saturation was at 64%. The software then set the car on a forced regen which I could actually hear in the background when I called them for an update. At some point the regen quit, didn`t go right through all stages on the laptop.
So they took the car for a 25 mile, 3000rpm drive to hopefully finish the regen and all seemed ok and apparently the car was driving perfectly until it went back into limp mode on the way back to the garage. I picked it up and it`s now up the drive with limited performance showing on my dash and I`m back where I started weeks ago. The egr has been cleaned but apparently it wasn`t really that dirty.
The garage haven`t charged me a penny after many days with it so it looks like searching for the nearest Saab specialist in the hope their experience points them to something obvious! Unless anybody reading this can offer any clues....
Cheers
 

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I had a similar problem, lost power. called the AA and they pulled code as Air intake leak. I told the man that it was the egr but he insisted it can't be that so spent ages looking for leaks and split pipes etc. I then insisted and he checked for memos on his laptop. He then found a mention from another AA man that this code almost certainly meant egr was kaput.

So i got him to blank it to get me home and as soon as he did this the cars performance was better than i had known.

I later cleaned out the egr and the map sensor and removed the blanking gasket. It went back to slugish and after a couple of days threw the code again.
At this point i put on a new egr (found one cheap on carpartsconnexion) and drilled a 10mm hole in the blanking gasket to reduce the build up (Fiat do a reduced hole gasket for this engine). After fitting new egr and restrictive gasket it ran perfect. That was 3 years ago and no problems since.

I pulled the egr off last year but there was no crud built up!


Basically what i'm saying is get a new egr and restrictor gasket. Pull out the map sensor and clean. Whip off the throttle body and scoop out as much crud as you can.

The DPF issue is separate. This may be sorted with a couple of 20-30 min runs at steady 2500+ rpm ie clear motorway at 60 in 4th gear

Hope this helps
Jan


edit Oh and i found GUNK cleaner worked better than carb cleaner etc for cleaning the sooty stuff and the map
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Saab specialist nearest me fully booked for next fortnight so my wife says what about the garage up the road ?
I called them yesterday, the guy says it`s my dpf and he gets them in all the time. Today they cleaned the dpf with `dpf doctor` as it`s called for £150.
The car feels 110% of what I had before my problems started. I am like a kid with a new toy.
So after all that it was the dpf and nothing more it seems...time will tell.
 
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