[K9SAAB]

for some time now my96 2.3lpt cse has had a horrible rattle on start up.the colder the weather the worse it is. starts first time but sounds awful for the first 5 mins, once warm runs perfectly.recently had the tension pulleys replaced which helped,or so i thought til the weather turned colder...

.am i listening to the chain slowly disintergrating?
having the mechanical knowledge of a chimp i would need someone to sort this. what should i expect to pay to have chain replaced? car has done 98k. thxs in advance

 

[1989agoodvintage]

If it sounds like a slack bicycle chain then chances are it's probably either the timing or balance shaft chains. If it's a "clacking" noise it could be a worn tappet, which is still a fair bit of work. Usually they will last until around the 150K mark (providing the car hasn't missed any services) but it's possible one of the gears may be abnormally worn.

It's worth taking it to a decent indy to get a free assessment.

 

[K9SAAB]

thxs jason. difficult to describe the noise but nearest i can get to it is a steady loud vibrating sound [bit like a pnumatic drill!]. if the revs are increased to around 1500 it stops but returns when returned to idle until engine warms up.nearest indy to gloucester seems to be bristol,which causes problems as it only does this from stone cold.

 

[1989agoodvintage]

Originally posted by K9SAAB:
[qb]thxs jason. difficult to describe the noise but nearest i can get to it is a steady loud vibrating sound [bit like a pnumatic drill!]. if the revs are increased to around 1500 it stops but returns when returned to idle until engine warms up.nearest indy to gloucester seems to be bristol,which causes problems as it only does this from stone cold. [/qb][/b]

Yep, sounds more like it's tappet related. A couple of oil flushes in the space of a 1000 miles or so might improve things ... with luck! It could probably do another 25K miles like that without getting any worse, so maybe wait and get the tappets done when you do the chains. Assuming you want to hold on to the car that is?

 

[K9SAAB]

cheers, i will give the oil flush idea a go.as for keeping it, its a difficult one. not worth a lot in A1 condition,but to good to give up on
will need to get it into hospital and find out what im up against.for the 4/5k a year i do in it,its proving a very costly hobby.could be time to cut and run.

 

[Mark B]

Do you know what oil is in there? Perhaps someone has put in something cheap that has the wrong viscosity. You should be using oil that has a 5W or 0W rating (the W rating gives the cold viscosity). If it's got 15W or heaven forbid 20W oil in, perhaps the oil's just not getting around when it's cold.

 

[K9SAAB]

cant vouch for the past but since ive had it [2years] its had oil changes every 6mths regardless of mileage,using 5w.has complete SSH so im hoping its been well looked after

 

[adrian]

Maybe its the pulley tensioner? Did you get this replaced when the pulleys were done? To check simply lift bonnet and look at belt, if its vibrating up and down then thats your problem. Oh yes, dont go poking around when its running or let your tie etc get trapped in there, also remember fan can switch in at any time.

 

[djtaylor]

Any chance you can record a wav file to let us have a listen?

As for cost, should it come to it, I paid £2000 for head gasket and chains at a Saab dealer. Maybe half at an independent.

Other option is a split link chain which is significantly cheaper but you can't do the balance chain this way and you don't get to inspect the crank sprocket or any of the balance sprokets for condition.

Or it could just be a noisy tappet as has been suggested.

David.

 

[K9SAAB]

wav file? please,getting on the internet is hard enough for me!

.I must admit it was only the 2 pulleys that were changed recently,will check the tensioner.failing that if its anywhere near £2k to sort it,its bye bye car!

thxs stephen A for advice on local specialists,will contact them next week.

 

[djtaylor]

Chaps, k9saab raises an interesting point, how about those of us with rattles and other noises that can, make recordings for comparison purposes?

Pity I didn't do this with my bag of nails before I fixed it.

David.

 

[ben hall]

Originally posted by K9SAAB:
[qb]...if its anywhere near £2k to sort it,its bye bye car!  

  thxs stephen A for advice on local specialists,will contact them next week. [/qb][/b]

I got my timing and balance chains and gears all done for well under 700 quid by DCA near Newbury (can thoroughly recommend them). It can be done by going in through the timing cover with no need to take the head off.

Cheers,

Ben.

 

[K9SAAB]

that sounds a little more encouraging benH.thxs to everyone for the excellent advise [as ever]phoning round today to arrange an appraisal,wallets weeping already!

 

[zeppelin]

when this noise appears is there any warning lights on the dash,oil light for example.my last saab did this, it was the oil pressure relief valve sticking causing oil starvation to the top end of engine............ sounded like a sick deisel.

 

[jp11]

I noticed someone mentioned oil flushes a few replies back. I have just aquired a 97 2.0LPT with 80k on it. It's a nice quiet, dry engine and the owner said he had always used 10/40 semi. However I believe there is black skudge in the sump and I'm afraid to use a flush in case of disrupting it, blocking oilways, pump and tappets. I consulted my local dealer and he says they never flush. I want to change to fully synth but I'm afraid to flush. I've just done a 10/40 change and it went black almost immediately. I'll be using the car for a daily 150 mile round trip. What is your experience out there?

 

[zeppelin]

you are not going to like this but your best course of action is to drop the sump and clean it and the strainer.my friend has a garage, saab mainly,and the number of gunged up sumps ive seen is scary.the problem seems worse with turbo cars running semi oil,my mate says this was not the case with gtx.etc.the only crumb of cumfort i can add is that the 95 is the worst,ive seen one with 30,000 mls and it was caked with gunge even at the top end.by the way on my 214,000 cse when i remove the dipstick there is black sludge on it,but at that milleage and with serious gearbox whine .............well.iwould not flush engine, it could make it worse.

 

[Paul D]

Agree with Zepplin on flushes.

Only if very minor black sludge/gunk build up would I recommonend a flush Otherwise all the loose gunk can block numerous oil ports causing severe engine damage.

I got my timing and balance chains and gears all done for well under 700 quid by DCA near Newbury (can thoroughly recommend them). It can be done by going in through the timing cover with no need to take the head off.[/b]

Hi Ben H,
Did that fee include the timing chain tensioner cost and fit?

 

[djtaylor]

I had to re-use my old tensioner (although I put the new spring in). I'm not sure it would be my first line of attack and it's pretty easy to inspect.

Unless I did it wrong, it's a bit of a faff to get at though as I had to unbolt the alternator (inner wheel arch liner off), then remove the top alternator/torque bracket.

Having been sold one in my kit that didn't work properly, I have a bit of a downer on them

David.

 

[ben hall]

[qb]Hi Ben H,
Did that fee include the timing chain tensioner cost and fit? [/qb][/b]

Nope, the old tensioner was fine to be reused(although it was at the end of its travel before the chain was changed!).

Also the camshaft sprockets weren't changed because they were like new.

 

[Paul D]

Nope, the old tensioner was fine to be reused[/b]

Interesting. I have noted several of the experienced mechanics on this site strongly recommend tensioner change when doing timing chain replacement. I guess it's worth doing if only £30 (approx) to buy new.

As my car has clocked 140k miles, I'd appreciate any further views/recommendations on tensioner change in lieu of the forthcoming overhaul.

Obviously depends on how hard engine has been driven - but what I have seen it is advisable to change both sprockets, and slippers (plastic guides), along with chain and tensioner - assuming one wants to keep the vehicle... in good repair.