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Discussion Starter #1
Been trying to find the ultimate exhaust system, and found one at this site, http://www.aero-turbine.com/how/index.html .
Has anyone here had any experience with this exhaust system.

Apparently it creates a vortex on exit causing it pulls more exhaust from the motor, while having a cooling affect, but also allowing the turbo to spool up quicker.

Wondered if anyone has had any experience with it, because I'd like to replace mine with stainless soon...

thanks

DC
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ordered it, and Just received the exhaust today....will have it probably sometime tomorrow during lunch time...to see how quiet using stainless bands.

Awesome looking ....stainless inside and out.., and you can look straight through the pipe.
Their claim is that it cancels out the loud sound, adding a slightly deeper resonating tone.

Improves performance and mileage almost 15 - 20%.
Worth a try.

DC
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Want to see if there is a way to measure EGT effectively before and after. If my calculations are correct, lower temperatures mean more exhaust flowing from the engine.

More exhaust means: faster turbo spool-up, to get more torque/hp. Similar to adding 3 inch exhaust system.

DC
 

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Keep in mind also that any low restriction exhaust lowers EGT ... the less restrictive, the lower the ETG. That's why you can't just run a stage 3 chip without the low restriction exhaust, the ETG would be too high. If you had the money it would be interesting to see how it stacked up against a JT exhaust, unless you already have that? At any rate, oughtta see if you can get a recording of how it sounds.

Cheers,
Dubbya
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I already have the JT 3 inch dp with race cat installed.

My stage 3 ecu is working great.., just want to encourage the turbo to spin up more with decreased back pressure...actually a vacuum on exit from the exhaust.

I'm dynoing mine on the 22nd to compare with those that have dynoed with similar components.

Two pulls for $50.00 is not bad... and $75 for an adjustment after the pull.

By the way Adrianne, when your ready to mod your car, let me know if you need anything. I checked with my brother in your area of California. With regards modifications on cars as it relates to smog or emissions.

Unless you fail miserably, you won't be fined as you pointed out in your earlier correspondances with others accross the pond.

regards

DC
 

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You can never have a vacuum on the exhaust side. That would mean air is sucked into the exhaust tail pipe and the turbo would stop spinning.

The pipe sounds good though, and you might see spool up occur a few 100 rpm sooner. But at the high end I cannot see it helping. The problem is the turbine inlet diameter it is only 1.5 inches. At high rpm it is the bottleneck, and nothing past it will make it flow any better.
Good luck though,
Eric

 

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Come on guys, non of you actually think that thing works?

Here are few things to remember:


->the spiral will not carry on very long in the exhaust, at the latest it will end at the cat, or the first bend or pipe wall roughness.

->no external cooling is provided to the unit = not much affect to temperature.

->No energy is taken from the unit = non or very tiny increase in engine output. For instance compare to a turbo= energy is taken from exhaust gases.

->If this would be so revolutionary dont you think some/ all the major manufacturers would mount the on their cars?

-> in the worst case this unit will just be a glog in the exhaust that creates more back pressure and raises the exhaust temperatures.

But hey, if you still want to believe in this "invetion" you might well add a "turbozet" to the intake side to maximize the results.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ERP...,

The tail pipe is where the vacuum will be created on exhaust due to the mixture of slow and fast exhaust gases in the muffler unit to eventually create a vortex.

The concept is simple, as it draws more exhaust air using the patented design to increase the exhaust air out of the tail pipe ...not into the tail pipe. Turbo'd cars spool up faster because theirs less back-pressure...

Testing to confirm...

DC
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Vigge..

You can see clear through the middle of the unit. Perhaps no drag at all considering the stock system. Uses the principle of combining the faster and slower exhaust air, to muffle the sounds.....

Besides there's a money back guarantee. I suppose there had to be a "first" to use the concept of a better air filter, intercooler, ECU too. Guess that's why its my car to modify, but will definately have it dynoed this weekend if you approve of course.

DC
 

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Originally posted by DC_SAAB:
[qb]Vigge..

 You can see clear through the middle of the unit.  Perhaps no drag at all considering the stock system.  Uses the principle of combining the faster and slower exhaust air, to muffle the sounds.....

 Besides there's a money back guarantee.  I suppose there had to be a "first" to use the concept of a better air filter, intercooler, ECU too.  Guess that's why its my car to modify, but will definately have it dynoed this weekend if you approve of course.

DC [/qb][/b]
Remember to dyno your car with and without this exhaust thing if possible... Otherwise it wont be possible to know what the effect on engine power is. Enyhow I bet the pressure drop ower the exhaust pipe will increase with aero-turbine, in other words back pressure will become greather.

Something to think:

The world is filled with "revolutionary inventios" and more are pumped to the market as we speak. Usually one should look at these inventions from a very skeptical point of view because we all know that all good inventions are marketed to the major manufacturers directly after the patent is given.
It all about money, where do you think the good money is, in a small internet shop who sells products directly to the end user, or in the patent royalties from major manufacturers? So if the Patent is still owned by the inventor then there is defenitly something wrong with it, otherwise some company would have purchased it already. Patents are not that expensive to claim from the inventor as one might think and the automotive industry purchases them relatively easy. After purchase the invetor gets its feed from royalties based on the agreament.

But hey, this is only my oppinion...
 

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Hey now let's not get all worked up. I even considered buying it, but ONLY because it's stainless steel all the way through. Most of that glass-packing stuff stops muffling after a while. I used to use a tail end glasspack on my C900 which I had to wash out to keep from getting horribly loud. Most companies like the JT exhaust just put a second muffler in so when the sound deadening stops working as well it's still pretty quiet. It would be interesting to see how this muffler stands up in that regards.

On the down side it's VERY expensive.
But if it muffles well enough, since it's stainless steel even inside, it might be worth it after all.

Not saying it's gonna give me more power, I'm skeptical about any kind of "vortex" as well ... here's some food for thought:

Cooling the exhaust does not make it flow better in any regards. HOT air flows much much better than COOL air. Cooling your exhaust gasses, then sticking them back into the same size pipe will inevitably cause backpressure. Ceramic coating the exhaust is getting more and more popular because it keeps the exhaust gasses warm and smooth flowing. (Reducing the cool boundary layer of exhaust gasses near the tube by decreasing the heat transfer also reduces internal turbulence.)

Now, that being said ... I can't imagine that exhaust actually "cools" the gasses much at all. Where is this heat going? Stainless steel is a good conductor, but not more than mild steel, and it has no more surface area than a standard muffler so where does the heat go?

It seems to me what they mean by "mixing" the air could just mean they forced that cool boundary layer in with the hot inner gasses. This would make the temperature of the exiting gasses more or less uniform. This could be good as it would reduce internal turbulence, but also bad because cool air just doesn't flow as well.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens aye DC_Saabette?.

Cheers,
Dubbya
 

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You can never have a vacuum on the exhaust side. That would mean air is sucked into the exhaust tail pipe and the turbo would stop spinning. -- ERP

I don't think you'd ever have vacuum on the exhaust of a car ... however I thought I'd point out that statement isn't entirely true. If the air in the exhaust were standing still you couldn't. However when moving the momentum of the air, and the bernuli principle (faster moving air has lower pressure) could actually allow a slight vacuum to exist in the exhaust. The momentum would keep the exhaust from reverting on itself. (Airplane wings generate lift in an upward direction, but do you ever see the high pressure air BEHIND the wing reversing the flow over the upper surface to fill in the vacuum? It would require much less work than lifting the plane were the air standing still. But because the air is moving it just has too much momentum to do so, and thus you get lift instead. In an exhaust the only way for gasses to fill that vacuum if it were generated would be to come in through the tailpipe, which would require flow reversal.) Now I'm not saying it does create a vacuum in this case, if you have a loose exhaust clamp or a leak you get gasses coming out not going in. I just thought I'd go the pedantic route here and point that out.

Cheers,
Dubbya

p.s. For all practical purposes what ERP says is true. Unless your muffler was at the tail end of your tailpipe, and had a large exit diameter I can't see any vacuum being generated.
 

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Interesting. I remain profoundly sceptical, but look forward to seeing some before / after dyno results.

Cheers

James
 

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I'm very sceptical too.

One of the guys recommending it says "I have a 3 1/2 inch exhaust with a 2 inch restrictor in it. I took out the restrictor and put this thing in its place and my truck goes faster". Well I've precised it, but that's the gist of what he says.

As to noise reduction, you have a tube with lots of orifices, sudden enlargements, sudden reductions, turbulence etc. etc. all add to energy loss. This could reduce the noise a bit but it will add friction loss too and cause its own restriction.
 

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Hmm, Heated debate, or what?

Must admit, I found the look and build quite impressive looking and after doing a job at a truck exhaust factory in the UK, the principles sounded fairly reasonably well used by larger engined machines.

Often used to spark arrest and cool gases before final exhaust to prevent ignitions on offshore generator sets (to prevent unintentional ignitions). Not sure if this adds anything, but don't think the method is unique.

Be interesting to see DC's results.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Gentle-people...

I got a broader hp and torque range after installing the new concept muffler.

The entry is 2.5 inches, and the exit is 2.5 inches, and it sounds and performs beautifully.

Initial test indicate a Torque increase at the wheels of 228 to 243, and although my hp is not as large as many here to the wheels, I'm getting 196.5 to the wheels but 200 rpm sooner, and later on the power band, actually broadening the hp range some.

Accordingly, I'm to drive the car another 600 miles or so for the ECU to get use to the increase flow.

I found out after testing that I had a bad vacuum line off the manifold area...ouch. Spent the whole day with EIG so going back after my 600 miles...and some new vacuum lines.

Feels and sounds really good.., just the low pitch I was looking for. The car really is pretty quiet for it to be possible to look straight through the muffler.

The OEM Saab muffler must way about 30 pounds or so, and increadibly heavy compared to the 7 pounds the Aero weighs in at.

I'll provide more results after next testing...by then I'll have my web site/server up for pictures to be viewed.

regards

DC
 
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