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I need some advice. On delivery of my 9,3 Aero Cabrio (2002), I had the dealer install Eibach springs (from Trent Saab) but keep the factory dampers. Now I'm thinking of replacing the dampers. Our friend at Abbott (who has sold me a few toys already) suggests scrapping the Eibachs and taking their Spring/Koni dampers kit.

I hate to scrap the Eibachs (they perform well), so should I go for the Eibach dampers, the Koni's or listen to Giles and replace everything?

Anyone out their have Eibach springs and dampers on their 9,3? What has been your experience with this combination?
 

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Hi there !

I run yellow adjustable Konis and H&R springs on my gm900. I love this setup. There's a huge different between having the dampers on the softest versus the hardest so you can really tune them in the way you like it !
Then about your Eibach springs, haven't heard anything bad about them so I don't know why you would want to change them..Especially if you think they are working well. I would say just go for new dampers and keep the Eibachs..This is just my opinion...
And about the dampers, haven't tried any other than the Konis, but at least I can say that they rock !
 
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Our friend at Abbott (who has sold me a few toys already) suggests scrapping the Eibachs and taking their Spring/Koni dampers kit.[/b]
Well, I for one think that this is bad advice. There is nothing wrong with Eibachs - they are well respected and matching them with some Eibach or Koni shocks should be just fine.

It sounds as though your friend at Abbot is just after your cash.
 

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Abbott Rule Number One: Anything Recommended Or Installed By Trent Saab Is Rubbish (don't know how it works the other way round).

Put another way: the Abbotts and Cowlands (Trent) were good friends until the latter decided to open their shop. After 6+ years, one might think they would've been able to get along like grown ups now - they're both pretty good at what they do IMO and the market should be big enough for both...

My advice: ignore Abbott advice.
 

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Botanique

I have the answer

I have the same car as you (5 months old), in fact after taking your advice, I installed the abbott viggen back box.

Trent Saab installed for me the Eibach spring and damper set which I am happy with. Unfortunately i have nothing to compare them against as I had them fitted immediately after I bought my car, i.e. only experienced say 20 miles on the factory set. I have no regrets.

I had the viggen back box fitted not long ago and its funny because Abbott said I should have fitted their spring set but then they would !! One thing Abbott did point out which I never noticed was that the rear springs are slightly lower than the front which you can actually tell if you look close. I am not sure whether this is because they were set up incorrectly when fitted by Trent or whether its just one of those things. Anyway cant really notice so Ive left it.

If you are not going to race your car and not a critique, then Keep your eibach springs and get the dampers fitted.

PS - have you gone with an ECM upgrade yet. I cant make my mind up. Im thinking.

Hirsh step 1
Abbott + 40 hp
or Speedparts

Both Abbott and Speedparts give you more HP and are half the price. The only thing that puts me off is loosing the warranty (although abbott say the garage would never know. Hirsch say abbott's torque graph is terrible but then does this really mean anything to the layman. I beleive abbott gives you a kick in the back whilst Hirsh is a steady pull.

Trent say they would only go with Hirsh's upgrade but is this because love has been lost as mentioned above and last on the list is speedparts purely because I know nothing about them / their reputation.

Can someone tell me what to do so I can but the damm thing


Giles and replace everything?
 

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Software-wise I would personally prefer Hirsch or one of the Swedish tuners to Abbott - their forte really lies in chassis development and parts fabrication, not electronics. According to the Swedish folks 'in the know' the Abbott Trionic conversions are something of a hack, losing part of the ability of the system to eliminate detonation. Reputedly Abbott jacks up basic boost on the wastegate a fair bit - something you should not need to do with Trionic, others argue.

But then again, what do I know - I can just about cope with the theory behind APC, and that's not rocket science for sure.


[edit]
Oh - Speedparts engine management upgrades come from BSR - don't know whether that's a good or bad thing...
 

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I've got the Speedparts (BSR) ECU in my 9000 and am very happy with it. From the graphs I've seen (for the 9000) their torque curve follows Saab's quite closely but hits max slightly later in the revs range.

Abbott state on their website you lose knock detection and I've never been clear what their package contains: ECU, uprated wastegate & bleed valve??? If anyone knows the answer: do tell.
 

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OK, there's been a fair bit of "Abbott bashing" here, not of all of which is either fair or wholly correct.

There's no doubt that they are not as competetive as some other tuners for upgrades, but they do have certain areas of expertise which few others can touch, especially chassis developments which have been born out of successful racing of the C900, NG900, and 9000.

I'd agree that there are others who have better knowledge of remapping Trionic systems but Abbott's basic upgrades do not affect base boost pressure and therefore APC protection except in the case of LPT upgrades when they fit an intercooler, in which case the base boost can be safely (and is) raised to FPT levels. The only "mod" that Abbott sell AFAIK that affects knocking is the Manual Boost Control Valve, which effectively removes the ability of the Trionic system to reduce boost under knock. The system can still detect knock, and will follow the initial response which is to vary the timing (up to a limit) to cope with this but cannot then reduce boost if that dosn't work.

Eric- the feeling is mutual between Abbott and Trent, and it really pi55es me off. Graham's wife has done an awful lot of work as a technical translator for Saab and it is a huge waste that they can't work together. Just for the record, it's my understanding of the history was that it was Trent who broke the "gentlemans agreement" about being agents for Abbott's products.

And Eric, (regrettably) I rather think I'm going to take issue with the statement "My advice: ignore Abbott advice".

OK they're out to sell their stuff; who can blame them; but the one area I would trust them on is chassis and handling- which you also acknowledged yourself. If any supplier is going to recommend a particular product, then they are going to go with what they know best...

IMO Abbott have not fully explored the engine management system to it's maximum potential because of the limits imposed on them by the class of racing they were in. However, you can make a car go a helluva lot quicker in racing by sorting out its handling- which is exactly what they did, as was amply proved by anyone who saw the way their 9000 handled at the track day. Bill and I might have been quicker on the straight, but it left us standing through the corners, and that wasn't just down to the driver...

But in the real world, I reckon just about any combination of lower/stiffer springs and uprated/adjustable dampers is going to provide a worthwhile improvment in handling. Different suppliers might well have matched the characteristics of custom springs to their dampers for optimum performance (which is in effect what Abbott are saying), but as was said earlier, unless you're doing track work, you're unlikely to push things to extremes.
 

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Originally posted by Bubbles (fka Mark E):
[qb]Abbott's basic upgrades  do not affect base boost pressure and therefore APC protection[/qb][/b]
I think the problem here is that they used to provide an uprated actuator and the Swedish tuners latched onto the fact. As far as I know, they no longer do it. The reason wasn't to raise base boost (although this was a side-effect), but to stop the higher exhaust gas pressure (from the higher power output) from blowing the wastegate open. I've no idea how they get round this now (if they do) or how others get around it.
 

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Originally posted by Eric van Spelde:
[qb]Abbott Rule Number One: Anything Recommended Or Installed By Trent Saab Is Rubbish (don't know how it works the other way round).[/qb][/b]
Interesting, beause I strongly suspect that the Abbott loan car I have at the moment has Trent brake discs on it. They certainly don't look like any discs on the Abbott web site. Mark, are the Trent Group N discs both drilled and grooved?
 

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I've experienced the Eibach/Koni combo in quite extreme situations, sitting in Mark A's 9-3 on the Nurburgring. This setup performs really well, even at high speeds on the uneven surface.
The springs feel softer than my Hirsch springs.
 
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Originally posted by Bubbles (fka Mark E):
[qb]OK, there's been a fair bit of "Abbott bashing" here, not of all of which is either fair or wholly correct.
[/qb][/b]
To be fair, practically everything in these forums has been favourable to Abbott. This is about the first time I have seen them criticised. I have haerd a particular story about their hack-handed approach to trionic "upgrading" - but I do not know if it is correct so I will not spell it out here, but it did confirm the "peaky" torque curve alluded to earlier. This may be good for track driving but I do not know how well it is suited to the road?

Furthermore I would not expect Trent (nor Abbott) to endorse any competitor at all.
 

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Mark: my comments were not meant to be Abbott bashing. But (there's always a 'but' (but) this is only a little 'but') I've never had much in the way of luck talking to Abbott: even when I was shopping around for the ECU upgrade on my 9000LPT (as mentioned bought from Speedparts in the end). Their website talks about a "kit" but doesn't say what is in the kit. For 2.3 litre cars and the later 2.0s there is no need to add an intercooler as it's there (hence the differing price).

I got the impression from talking to Giles the wastegate was uprated on their LPTs but you say not and I could easily be wrong. As they weren't helpful when I was in the market for an upgrade I certainly don't want to bother them now just out of curiosity.

BTW it strikes me as odd from a sales point not to list the content of the upgrade. For all I know there's a remapped ECU, wastegate bleed valve, filter and turbo BPV in that £628 pack...

All that said they don't have a good reputation for nothing.
 

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OK so that was quite a big 'but' really . I think for a long time people have gone to Abbott for all mods and now people are looking around a bit more and thinking (e.g.) Abbott will give me 35hp extra for £628 Maptun will give me 75hp more for £535: what do Abbott give me that's so special?

None of which answers the original question about dampers. Sorry .
 

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And Eric, (regrettably) I rather think I'm going to take issue with the statement "My advice: ignore Abbott advice".

OK they're out to sell their stuff; who can blame them; but the one area I would trust them on is chassis and handling- which you also acknowledged yourself. If any supplier is going to recommend a particular product, then they are going to go with what they know best...[/b]
I'm not disputing that, but rather the sales tactics display here. For all we know there's nowt wrong with Eibach or Trent on the suspension front, either, and suggesting to the customer to scrap his investment right up front does sound wrong to me from a consumer's point of view. The honest and sensible approach (and the one most vendors would follow) -even if you think/suspect your own product is better- here would be to advise upgrading the dampers, then go for a test drive and see how it works. Then you can always replace the dampers.

I know there was no pressure at all from Trent Saab when a friend and I went there with his '92 T16S to have the Stage One kit fitted, and my friend wanted to retain the APC upgrade he had already bought from SPG9 in the USA. They installed the rest of the kit, test drove it, commented the car was very fast, let my friend do another test run with their own APC box for comparison (on his initiative), he decided he was happy with the results the kit gave him with the APC he already owned, everyone was happy and no one at Trent tried to talk him into buying the Trent APC.
 

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Hey there, maybe a bit late in the game, but I've got Eibach springs with Koni yellow shocks (dampers), and absolutely love the setup! Car handles confidently and sharply, and bites well into even the most demanding twisty roads at high speed. Go for it, and don't buy the Konis from Abbott. Look online, and you'll doubtless find a better deal for the same shocks....
 

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Originally posted by BillJ:
[qb]I strongly suspect that the Abbott loan car I have at the moment has Trent brake discs on it.[/qb][/b]
Just spoke to Giles and they are actually Abbott discs. He tells me they don't drill them any more because they found it causes cracking.
 

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bubbles said
IMO Abbott have not fully explored the engine management system to it's maximum potential because of the limits imposed on them by the class of racing they were in. However, you can make a car go a helluva lot quicker in racing by sorting out its handling- which is exactly what they did, as was amply proved by anyone who saw the way their 9000 handled at the track day. Bill and I might have been quicker on the straight, but it left us standing through the corners, and that wasn't just down to the driver...[/b]
It could be down to the 1" travel rather than 6 " on a std car !!(source ccc )

giles response to my specific requests was a tad disappointing and I was left with the feeling they want to push their stuff rather than do what I want ...
 
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