[JD]

Anyone out there upgraded their ecu. Abbott would charge £844 to upgrade the ecu, and to add a dump valve and air filter to my aero and reckon that should add about 30 bhp. Has anyone done that or similar and how much better/ quicker did it feel. What about reliability/ smooth running/ extra insurance etc. All comments would be appreciated.

thanks Julian

 

[quarryeff]

The old perennial.
All you need spend is £20 and one hour very easy work.
Just put a bleed valve in the wastegate pipework. This entails cutting a 10mm rubber pipe, inserting the valve and adjusting the valve bleed to suit.
Adjustment is by trial and error, start at shut, check where the turbo gauge goes to in the 'red' when on full load (say 4th gear at 40mph uphill). Open valve a tiny amount. Check again. Repeat until you reach a point where the engine management 'cuts' on boost (approx 60% into red band). Back off a little so there is no cut.
Results will astonish you.

 

[bambo]

I've read your comments on this before although I have a couple of questions.

All you need spend is £20 and one hour very easy work.{/QUOTE}

Does this work with the 900 carlsson?
Is it really that easy?

I can't understand how it actually works since turbos are new to me but does it not risk overstressing other bits - perhaps from an increase in compression?

cheers

 

[mpen]

if you put on a uprated wastgate actuator around £85.00 your boost will arrive much quicker and hold longer, will also need a manual valve to fine tune your set up...JD I have had my ECU upgraded I was going to go to Abbott but they are a bit to far from me (lancs) I got a local company motorsport-developments.co.uk to upgrade my ecu / wastegate/dump valve/manual boost valve on my 2k carlsson the difference is shattering, its a completely different car..I need a decent exhaust system to finish it off...but for 60-120 mph not much can hold onto it, good going for an 11 year old car I think..its been on for six months with no problems and still returns 23mpg mostly town driving

 

[JD]

Thanks mpen. Now I've just got to think about the Insurance.

As for the bleed valve my apc works fine and I wouldn't want to bypass it with a manual bleed valve. How much did you spend mpen?

 

[adrian]

I've just got my Dawes Device MBC valve - I'll let you know the results but I think it is a better solution than a bleed valve. Basically its a pressure relief valve hence actuator does not see any pressure until the MBC sees the boost pressure set. Hence no need to replace a tired actuator - cost $35. Providing preset value of this device is just below standard APC set-up you can use it in series with the APC. Anyway, might play with it this weekend.

 

[mpen]

JD in total around £550 the down side was I was told only to use super unleaded which was getting scarce around here...Until Shell optimax arrived...thank you shell..now that is a good fuel !!

 

[quarryeff]

Really, it is that easy.
The Saab management system prevents overboost although I do concede that bleeding the wastegate (delays its opening) effectively is 'short circuiting' the apc. But this happens anyway if you have a little leak. The amount of air bled by using a valve in this way is tiny tiny tiny.
My car was at 150k when I did this, it is now at 161k (11 months). No problems whatever, although I do concede that I have probably aged more than 11 months in the time I have had this valve in place!
Yes it will work with almost any turboed car.
If the 900T has the little control gadget (black plastic cylinder, 1.5" dia, 2.5" long standing on end at radiator top right (on my Carlsson, at least))with three pipes and an electrical connection then it is similar to 9000T!
Cut pipe marked 'W' (look carefully, they ARE marked) near to the black gadget and insert bleed valve. Admittedly the valve will hang in mid air but the pipework supports it ok.

 

[bambo]

thanks quarryeff. I must take a look although I'll have to wait til the car comes back with a new turbo! and also for the wallet to reinflate. pity the turbo couldn't do that.

 

[Derek]

Out of curiosity, where does one obtain these bleed valves?

 

[wrighar]

Then again, if you have a '93 on Trionic motor with adaptive boost, proper driving and petrol seems to give you the extra 25-30 bhp you could be looking for.

Andrew
CS Aero
9000 Carlsson
2* 900 T
No longer any 99T's/900 Carlsson's

 

[quarryeff]

Most car accessory shops will sell them. They are no more or less than a very very fine hole whose size you can vary. At a pinch you can achieve the same by puncturing the wastegate pipe, but this is haphazard and also unsightly.
As the turbo spins up with increasing revs. it is forcing more and more air into the engine, at an ever-increasing pressure. The wastegate is preset to open at a given pressure and prevent any more pressure build up. This is what you are seeing when the gauge hovers in the yellow/red range on the turbo gauge. Just where it hovers says how much boost you are achieving. In any case, if the boost consistently gets high enough the engine management will momentarily 'cut' the engine to prevent too high a boost being maintained. The norm seems to be that the gauge will settle out at the top end of the yellow band. But for a few moments on hard acceleration the needle will, get into the red portion.
By blleding you will find the needle will hold in the red portion, more bleed puts it higher but there comes a point (about 50% up red end, but I daren't look) where the management cuts out. This is merely a cough, you back off by instinct.

 

[bambo]

Curiosity has got to me too! When adjusting the bleed valve to the desired position, would I be right in thinking the 'turns' would be very very slight - almost no movement??

I remember 'test driving' the carlsson a few years ago and desciribing the accelerator as an on/off switch. Was unable to afford it then due to a very expensive conversion of the marital kind!

Having bought it last year, it wasn't as noticeably 'nippy' and 15,000 miles later the turbo went in a puff (now 137,000). (Pity things hadn't happened the other way around). Anyway, I would love to get it back to what it was like before - (the saab that is), but I do remember that three years ago, when I first drove it the turbo guage went into the red about 1/3 way up it and stayed there for a few seconds before dropping down, on one occasion provoking the comment "keep it out of the red", which was shortly followed by 'f**kin* slow down', as I had just changed gear in response to his first request. Ahhh the good old days....

 

[quarryeff]

Yes, the bleed valve is (in my car) set to be almost shut. I think a couple of pinholes would leak as much air!
My car will hold well into the red rather than fall back into the yellow. This is when the performance gets, let us say, interesting.
I sometimes close the valve and the acceleration reverts to normal.
In case you think I'm a boy racer, can I say I only use the performance when it is safe to do so and don't exceed speed limits. I have had a licence for 37 years.
If you want to go ahead and bleed some air, I'll help where I can.
I don't think anyone else reading my various goings on about this has actually tried it. Or am I wrong?

 

[JD]

Quarryeff Abbott advised me not to go down that route even though they sell a bleed valve ( manual blah, blah something they call it ). Probably because the'd rather sell me the whole works. I am interested in what you have doen but I'm not overly technical and have a worry it might not be the best thing for the car to boost more than its supposed to and to bypass the apc which is there to protect the engine anyway?

 

[pete_turier]

I bought an Abbott bleed valve recently, and I'm frankly dissappointed with the result! Doesn't seem to have made any difference!
They told me to do away with the apc valve and connect the bleed valve (3 way) in its place. Am I correct in thinking that this is the wrong way to connect it then?
Quarryeff, does your bleed valve have 2 or 3 ports?
Also, how long does it take before a turbo glows red hot? I went for a blast the other night, lifted the bonnet to play with the valve, and was stunned to see the turbo and manifold glowing cherry red! I'm beginning to wonder if I have a 'cat' fault, as the turbo / exhaust has been making strange noises when off boost lately.
Any comments chaps??
Pete
Gloucester UK
'91 9000S 2.3 Turbo

 

[bambo]

Hi Pete,

I was told told by my saab specialist only last week that the turbos do glow as can the manifold. I have two manifold studs requiring replacement as a result.

I'll leave your other questions to the knowledgable guys on this BB.

/bambo

 

[quarryeff]

To try to pull these points together:
1. My bleed valve has thee ports, but imagine how it is put in: you cut the pipe and fix each end thus exposed onto the opposite ports of the bleed valve. The third port is simply the hole to atmosphere.
2. The APC valve stays where it is. Just cut the pipe labelled 'W' and proceed.
3. Abbott would say that wouldn't they?
4. Never seen my turbo glow; despite what you might have gathered from what I've written, I do not punish the old girl, rather just allow her some reins from time to time (I mean the Carlsson, not the Mrs!)
5. My car has two broken manifold studs (left hand outer top and bottom). I gather this is common. It has not anything to do with mods. as I have discussed, these studs were broken when I got the car, no mods had been done before that. I've had car 11000 miles (11 months) and no repurcussions regarding these broken manifold studs - no leaks, noise.) Perhaps I'm lucky.

 

[9000CS23T]

I the same as Quarryeff have a broken stud on my manifold, top left, it makes no difference as long as it doesn't blow.
If anyone is interested Halfords Ripspeed store sell said Bleed valve at £15.99. I was having a nosey today. It's quite a common valve to fit to a turbo for a bit more performance.

 

[quarryeff]

I reckon more than 'a bit'. My Carlsson went from wild to terrifying