[potto]

A couple of us are getting ideas together for a bit of a track toy. Car I'm thinking of is a T8 with an intercooler so it's the 155bhp model. The plan is to put it on an intensive weight loss programme to improve performance, but I wondered what suggestions you guys might have for getting more grunt from it.

We have an "interesting" exhaust already (though it might need a silencer to pass the noise regs ) Not too worried about driveability on the road.

What else can be done (very) cheaply? to safely get a bit more power?

For example, I'm aware of the possibility of bodging the cold start valve to create a 5th injector but not sure how to go about doing this. Also aware of using thicker washers between the APC knock sensor & the block, but not too keen on this one...

How about tweaking the APC box itself for more boost - worth it on a T8? Seems to have worked on nutcase's 99, but that's a low compression engine so not sure about this on a later engine. Are there any fuel pressure mods we could easily make and would this help?

Any other suggestions?

 

[nutcase]

It's simplicity in itself to up the fuel pressure on the T8's - insert extra washers into the fuel pressure regulator. If you ask nicely I have some proper sized spares somewhere Assuming the pump is up to it of course!

With an intercooler, upping the APC should help a bit. Orca and pda both have tweaked APC's on T8's and of course JohnW's is a mighty one in itself.

 

[carl.rose]

I've seen a T16S running two intercoolers (plumbed in an extremely heath-robinson manner, but functional) that ran massive boost levels with no other mods, and actually got faster on-the-road performance (due to a wider power-band) with it's standard ecu than with the red-box ecu that was tried in it.

I have no idea what could be achieved in an 8 valve, but a second intercooler WILL fit...

 

[potto]

Any idea where this was physically sited? I'm fascinated!

We used to have an 83 non-APC T8 with a turbo techniks FMIC and that was particularly quick. It had a reputation for not letting early Sierra Cossies get past

 

[Eric van Spelde]

Two standard c900 intercoolers will result in massive pressure drops which could well negate any performance gain. I'd go with rigging up an electronically controlled 5th injector (only proper way to do it) and a slightly bigger turbo (45 trim T03 or TE05B12 from 16 valve models -especially the latter- would already be a worthwhile upgrade). T8's also seem to respond well to a slightly hotter cam.

 

[potto]

Thanks EvS, don't want to go to the expense of a bigger turbo unless/until

we are forced into buying one.

Hotter cam might be interesting though, any suggestions?

I know that an EMS cam was a good bet for an early B20 turbo but I thought that profile was pretty much what the H-engine cars had - IIRC the T8s had the same profile as the i after 83?

Anyone know of a pet supplier/source, or would we be better getting one reground by Kent or Piper or whoever?

Main constraint for us is always going to be budget, we are looking at spending £10s to £100s on a few mods, not £10s to £1000s

 

[Bussman]

Tweeking the APC "F" & "P" pots..
full details on www.900aero.com
ITG air filter.
straight pipes on exhaust,
different cam.


I've had very good results with the APC tweek
but if you take it up too far "BANG" goes the gearbox..
my T8 is flying now I'm running the right Ignition timing for the cam

as Richard has said the T8 is not slow now..


Paul

 

[potto]

Which cam are you running?

 

[Bussman]

its a Heuschmid cam

from Germany the guys still working in Germany but he will not answer E-mails/Fax's etc etc
he will answer the phone but he only speaks Greman & Swedish...

the cam itself I was given that by "Chris the saab man"

& its took me nearly 9 months to find out the corrcet ignition timing which I'm running at the moment 32º[email protected]

Heuschmid have a website but its all in German...

Paul

 

[Bussman]

website address.......

www.heuschmid-tuning.de


Paul

 

[potto]

Thanks Paul

IIRC Gordon Lamb in Sheffield used to be agents for Heuschmid years ago, before they got involved with Hirsch. I'm pretty sure we had some Heuschmid springs off them once.

Thanks again.

 

[Bussman]

yes your right about Gordon Lamb..
but I've been in contact with them & they don't want to know now they are Hirsch agents

stopped dealing with Heuschmid in 1999..

If you search some of the other saab forums there is a guy selling 2x 8v cylinder heads one of which has a piper fast road cam in it
all going cheap...
if you can't find it PM me

Paul

 

[sonett2]

Originally posted by Bussman:
[qb]yes your right about Gordon Lamb..
but I've been in contact with them & they don't want to know now they are Hirsch agents                  

stopped dealing with Heuschmid in 1999..

If you search some of the other saab forums            there is a guy selling 2x 8v cylinder heads one of which has a piper fast road cam in it

These are no longer for sale, i bought them both for £20.    
all going cheap...
if you can't find it PM me      

   

Paul [/qb][/b]

 

[felske]

If you guys want some help with Joseph Heuschmid, I'd be happy to help (living in Singapore, but I'm German).

Sadly, it's true, Heuschmid's an excellent mechanic, but not very communicative. I'm basically on the phone with him every day because I've just bought a 9000 Aero from him that he's working his magic on (at least I hope that's what he does).

Just let me know what your questions are. Who knows, maybe he's got a camshaft lying around the shop.

 

[potto]

Thanks, sling, not got the car yet, but am off to see it tonight so will hopefully have a view very shortly...

 

[Bussman]

Hi Sling,

I have had a girl at work speak to Mr Heuschmid on the phone about 6 weeks ago as she is German..
we got no where.
all he said was put everything in a Fax & he would answer it..

I did this 6 weeks ago & still heard nothing
Heuschmid speaks German & Swedish, I've even got someone from Sweden to speak to him, all with no joy

the guy does make his cars fast, but he will not speak to anybody unless its in person

all the ignition timing details I found out were from a guy on a German Saab Forum

even in Germany Heuschmid tuned cars are rare..

Paul

 

[felske]

Hi Paul!

I saw your posts on that German forum some while ago.

And you're right about the rarity of Heuschmid-tuned cars even in Germany. One of the reasons for this might well be that while it's easy to get a hold of the man, it seems to be much harder to get him to stick to schedules. Philip HS, a moderator on the German forum but also active here, has had that experience with his 9-3 Viggen, and I'm going through it right now. Well, it's a small shop: Heuschmid, his son and a secretary, that's it.

Other reasons probably include the absence of a decent Heuschmid website, the TUV-sanctioned market dominance of Hirsch, as well as the fact that it's just so easy to tune the newer Saab engines - just swap the ECU for a remapped one, and off you go!

Having said that, however, I've had the pleasure of being chauffeured around Bavaria by Mr. Heuschmid for almost a day in one of his worked-upon 9-5s, and it's been a revelation, if sometimes hair-raising. I've subsequently driven another 9000 Aero that had gone through Heuschmid's hands. After that, I knew what I wanted.

Again, I'd be happy to put in a word and see if I can be of help. By now I'm probably getting on Heuschmid's nerves anyway. Also, I have an appointment with him to pick up the Aero on December 21, so that would be another opportunity to actually get whatever parts he may have.

 

[carl.rose]

Resurrecting an old post here, I know, but I realised I hadn't answered a question by Fliptop...

The second intercooler goes in the space you make by cutting off the standard front towing-eye bracket and replacing the standard front bumper/bib with a Carlsson one. This makes the plumbing possible as the two intercoolers can face all their plumbing together and the passage from the original to the manifold remains standard. I'm sure you could get some silicon bits that fitted neatly, but the example i saw just used a selection of bits that were lying around a workshop, so there was some extra length to get the angles.

I know what's said about the problems of running two intercoolers, but it's an area where real-world results seem commonly to vary from the theory, and this T16S I saw certainly went like a petrified cat (scared, that is, not fossilised).

Carl

 

[potto]

Thanks for that Carl, sounds like an interesting way to do it.

We didn't get the T8 in the end, but we did get a 2 door T16S

which is currently in bits and hopefully will be in just the one bit come Goodwood

Plan at the mo is fairly tame really, partly due to budget and partly as we want to get to grips with what we have first, make sure the box is OK etc. Hopefully by Goodwood we will have:

Interior removed & race driver's seat & harness fitted
Passenger seat & std belt retained + some lighter door panels
7x15 wheels with sticky Avon 205/50 tyres (thanks eBay

)
Jamex springs
9000 2.3T front discs & calipers
Pagid fast road pads
Speedparts induction kit

Future plans (when we get the time!):

Remove headlining, sunroof mechanism & permanently fix sunroof panel in place
Fit full FIA cage (ex-Turbo Challenge car) & plumbed in extinguishers etc
Possibly fit ex-Turbo Challenge AP paddle clutch
Remove leccy windows & replace with manual
Move battery to boot
Fit second race seat & harness??
Maybe some poly if it needs it
Then we'll think about APC tweaks etc, but a way to go first!

 

[grentarc]

a 9000's intercooler would be usefull too for you! on ebay oz, there is a TE05-12b going for $100AU, looks new too!