[Liam L]

Does anyone know which are the most aggressive factory cams for the 9000? I was under the impression that the earlier (pre-90) T16 or Carlsson ones are the most potent ones produced and the later ones are slightly more user friendly. And do all the cams fit all the heads, excluding the non-turbo ones.

Other than SAAB OE who else produces cams off the shelf, Kent and Piper don't list one in the UK, but what about in Europe?

I was thinking when I do the timing chain in a couple of months... of fitting a 2.3 head (better breathing I believe, true or false?) 2.3 N/A inlet manifold (with appropriate mods to fit) and the best/hottest factory cams or possibly aftermarket ones. Any problems with that, my car is a '90 2.0T?

As my car is an auto I don't really want to boost the torque low down too much and fry the box but would appreciate a bit more top end poke, from improved breathing and cam timing. And 'coz I haven't a bottomless pit of cash to spend...

 

[billj]

Liam, is your car a turbo? Even the most aggressive 900/9000 turbo cams are very mild compared to the normally-aspirated ones.

 

[Liam L]

Its a 9000T 16, I suppose I should have asked for the most potent factory turbo cams....

N/A ones would be no good, too much timing for the turbo I should think.

 

[Eric van Spelde]

Sweedspeed has billet cams (not regrinds) available off the shelf - about 600 euro a set. Mine are regrinds from Crower courtesy of Vince Tong, who sent in two pairs of cams. Given the fact that you'd have to send cams back and forth over the ocean, the price difference between the regrinds and the billet ground cams won't be that big - and the quality of the billet cams is superior to that of the regrinds (regrinding means smaller base circle, which is not so good for valve float at high revs. The hydraulic lifters on a Saab 16v head can compensate for a 2 mm difference from new stock cams, though (which normally would only be reached with excessive wear of the cam lobes) but I've heard stories of people going through reground cams quite regularly. As for mine, it's too early to tell...

 

[Eric van Spelde]

Fitting a 2.3 head (+ intake manifold, of which I happen to have one...) will give you 14% bigger ports on the intake side, a slightly better combustion chamber profile and slightly lower static compression ratio (chamber volume is 48 cc versus 46 for '86-'93 2.0 heads and 42 for very early ('84-5) 16 valve heads. With your factory pistons, the 2.3 head will give something in the region of 8.5-8.7:1 c.r, which is a pretty good base to start from for a high boost engine. Low-down and midrange torque will be slightly diminished, but that might be a good thing given the rest of your driveline...

 

[billj]

For the B202 engine, there only seems to be two inlet camshafts and one exhaust camshaft on the 9000.

The inlet shafts are:

Turbo, non-DI: 75 60 808
Non-turbo; turbo, DI: 75 61 467

So assuming the most aggressive camshafts are for the non-turbo, it looks like you may already have the most aggressive setup if your car has DI.

This surprises me, because I'd heard there was a much bigger difference between the cam timing on the turbo and non-turbo models.

I believe all B202 shafts will fit all B202 heads. I'm not sure whether the early B234 shafts will fit and I'm pretty sure nothing from '94-on will fit the pre-'94 heads.

900 B202 camshafts are the same as their 9000 couterparts, at least from '85-on. I have no information on the '84 B202 engine, which was the year it first appeared.

 

[ylee coyote]

maptun wil supply them
however they say you only need them if you are going into the 350hp + area (their stage 5 + )
Afriend of mine is fitting them to his aero shortly so I will be able to report back (he should be at the midsummer madness as well !)
I shall wait and see....

 

[Eric van Spelde]

however they say you only need them if you are going into the 350hp + area (their stage 5 +  [/b]

That's for a 2.3 - I bet you can get a 2.0 with LH fuel injection and DI/APC to 270 or so hp, maybe a bit more, with the stock cams, albeit using megaboost with all the associated driveability and longeivity problems (3rd gear will be the first victim in most cases). Above that, you really need to venture into the higher rpm range.

But as I understand it, the rationale behind Liam's query was that he wants some more power at the top end, without overburdening his auto trans with even more low/midrange grunt - there's enough of that already to run the venerable ZF into the ground pretty quickly...
Methinks the bigger porting on the 2.3 head and a pair of more agressive cams would be a good way to tailor the torque curve so that he can run more boost for more top end, without getting too much low/midrange torque. Only problem with that is that a custom reprogramming would be needed to bring fueling and ignition in line with the new requirements, or you should find a supplier that has the cams as well as the software to go with it. The old Maptun website listed such combinations of exhaust, turbo, cams and matching software for the old 900, and pre- Trionic 9000's - the current one concentrates entirely on Trionic-controlled car. A phone call to Sweden might clear things up...

 

[Liam L]

Looks like I may be forced into sorting this rather sooner than previously planned, judging by the ominous knocking noise from the top of the head on start up (goes away when warm though)

Sounds like a 2.3 head is the way to go for better breathing and lower compression. Is that a non-turbo 2.3 intake you have Eric, as the mod I was referring to is to fit the non-turbo intake, which on Trionic non-turbo cars is much bigger than the turbo one. I am still researching this, as the only car I have seen it done to is a Trionic one and I am not sure if the mod is the same for earlier cars like mine. Looks like a fair bit of work to fit but apparently gives very good airflow gains. The one I have seen is at:

Intake Mod

Do Sweedspeed have a website Eric, I know you have mentioned them before as a source of bits?

The cam timings surprise me too Bill, as I was under the impression that at least the Carlsson cams were different to the standard turbo ones, which explains the more sporty drive of the Carlsson, seems strange that the N/A ones are so close in timing terms?

It would of course be easier to buy a later 2.3T manual but mine is a one owner, low mileage car and I prefer the pre CS looks. My ultimate future course of action will be to fit a manual box

, but I figure I may as well upgrade the bits that won't break the autobox first and won't cost the earth, at least until I can sell my Mini/Camper Van/Kidneys...

 

[Eric van Spelde]

The manifold I have is from a 2.3T. Coincidentally, I just looked at Kevin's site with the non-turbo intake - I wonder what the rationale for this is as the ports should be exactly the same (same head) but the non-turbo manifold is so much longer? I'say fitting one would bring a fair bit more low/midrange torque but b somewhat restrictive at the top end - exactly the opposite of what you'd want in this specific case...

Sweedspeed do have a website but it frankly is no good - even the phone number listed misses a digit... (BTW, that's (31) 475 593948). I suggest you give Frank a call and discuss your requirements.

 

[Liam L]

Hmmm, you may be right about the increased torque Eric,not really what I am after. I think from the pics that the actual intake pipes look to be a bigger diameter on the N/A one, even if the ports are the same size at the head face. That seems to be a bit strange really, maybe it is just to boost torque for the non-turbo engines.

It would seem to be strange to fit it without opening the ports up to at least the same diameter as the pipes (if they are indeed bigger.) I think there would be a benefit with reduced temperatures from the longer and bigger manifold, but probably more turbo lag which you don't want. Interesting though, but quite a bit of work.

 

[billj]

Originally posted by Liam L:
[qb]I was under the impression that at least the Carlsson cams were different to the standard turbo ones, which explains the more sporty drive of the Carlsson[/qb][/b]

I understood that the Carlsson engines were identical to other turbo engines of the same capacity and vintage, with APC differences accounting for the extra power.

 

[Liam L]

Carlsson engines were identical to other turbo engines of the same capacity and vintage, with APC differences accounting for the extra power.  [/b]

So if I could get hold of a Carly ECU I would get a fairly cheap extra 20 bhp or so?

("Could" being the operative word there, anyone seen my hens teeth?

)