[manders]

Just received a product update from parts from saab. They are now doing BSR ECR upgrades which for my T7 lpt is 67bhp @ £480 seems damn good value. But the funky thing is they all offer a PPC system for an additional £143 which upgrades your existing ECU via the Tech parallel socket. You an revert from back to your old settings at the touch of a button.

Anyone had any experience of BSR?

The functionality of the system makes it look good.

Just thought I'd see what the rest of the community think before I go buy one.

Thanks All

Manders

 

[manders]

PS. Must learn to check my spelling and grammar b4 I hit the reply icon.

 

[Vigge]

One thing one should know about BSR/SpeedParts ECU is that BSR uses high ignition advance settings. For an example the ignition 9-3 LTT T5 is set at 40

Stock is set at 29. With high ignition advance degrees the engine will knock alot easier. This was the case with my viggen with SP stage I and my friends 9-3 aero with SP stage I.

I personally recomend Maptun, cause they care about customers engines. Same cant be said about BSR/SP.

 

[cbullock]

My understanding is that BSR make the product, sell it to Speedparts, who sell it to Elkparts who sell it to us.

However I have not seen the PPC system before, it uses the same mappings so the upgrades should give the same outputs as the "Speedparts" upgrades (as infact they are the same) with the extra degree of felexibiltiy if you think being able to tune and de tune your car would be useful. Perhaps so the wife doesnt notice!!!

Whilst it may well be true that many board members have BSR upgrades, they may well have not known they were made by BSR, I didnt!

Not sure if that helps but its my two penneth!

 

[manders]

I didn't realise that BSR and Speedparts system upgrades were one and the same.

The flexibility of the system is more to do with the insurance company.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[cbullock]

Originally posted by Manders:
[qb]The flexibility of the system is more to do with the insurance company.
[/qb][/b]

A very good point Manders

 

[Vigge]

Originally posted by Cosmic Blue 9-5:
[qb]My understanding is that BSR make the product, sell it to Speedparts, who sell it to Elkparts who sell it to us.

However I have not seen the PPC system before, it uses the same mappings so the upgrades should give the same outputs as the "Speedparts" upgrades (as infact they are the same) with the extra degree of felexibiltiy if you think being able to tune and de tune your car would be useful. Perhaps so the wife doesnt notice!!!

Whilst it may well be true that many board members have BSR upgrades, they may well have not known they were made by BSR, I didnt!

Not sure if that helps but its my two penneth! [/qb][/b]

Your understanding is right, SP does not make any of the software they are selling. Most of SP software are made by BSR. There are some exceptions though, Viggen stage III software is made by Maptun and some 9000 software by SQR. The reson why there are different numbers for output between SP and BSR is that SP states them differently. Usually + values are the numbers subracted from saabs numbers given for stock. BSR on the other hand measure stock cars and compare upgrades to those. Some kits are also dynoed by SP independent of BSR.

 

[California Saab Tuner]

40 degrees of ignition advance???!!!

Holy cow! Pent roof combustion chambers burn much more quickly than that. That's well before the timing for mean best torque. From what I've been reading in these dissertations from a Swedish university (they test with a Saab 2.3L ), generally advancing the timing beyond the factory set timing is a fruitless venture. Usually the factory sets the timing at only 1% off mean best torque. Also advancing the timing too far drastically increases NOx emmissions. Kind of disturbing that BSR has upped the ignition timing so far on such a fast burning style combustion chamber ... hopefully they know something we don't.

 

[mark e]

Originally posted by Manders:
[qb]The flexibility of the system is more to do with the insurance company.
[/qb][/b]

What, so you can only deceive them and drive illegally with invalid insurance part of the time?

On a practical note, if you do have an accident one of the hardest things to spot for an asessor is going to be an ECU re-mapping- unless one of the guys in the know about T7 (Leon?) can say whether this is something they normally do check on after an accident, and if upgrades are traceable? I'm not sure, but if what you were thinking of was re-programing back to "normal" after an accident, then I think that might be picked up and only make matters worse, becasue then your insurers could prove the intent to deceive....

 

[murphwiz]

It's a sticky subject...
Not one that we really should go into to deeply!

But a re-map will only be spotted if:
a, the ecu is on plain view and has been stickered or engraved with tuners logos.
b, They interogate the ecu to see whats going on, then it will be plain as day regardless!

The ppc system should program back to normal if I read the bumpf correctly, but do you really want to be worrying about that just after the worst has happened?

It all depends on how deep an assesor cares to look, which is largely dependant on the accident and parties involved.

The only safe way is to tell your insurance company about all and every mod and drive around with total piece of mind.

Do a search on the boards, you'll find plenty of recommendations as to mod friendly insurers.

 

[California Saab Tuner]

What will they do if they discover an ECU, or other performance upgrades? I mean they might not pay for them if the accident is your fault and you were not paying premiums on them. But surely your mods cannot equate to being at fault for an accident. At the very worst they simply should not pay to fix them. Why would you want to reprogram it back to stock?

 

[murphwiz]

If you don't disclose a mod, you are effectively driving un-insured.
that in the UK is a criminal offence, so if you have an accident and they refuse to pay out because of un-disclosed mods, your paying for your damage, and should you have hit anyone else, thier damage and personal injury bill..
Which could be very nasty indeed!

 

[California Saab Tuner]

I hope it isn't that way here in the states! Wait, ok actually I know it isn't. I know people who've been in accidents with mods. But still, I can't believe that would be criminal in the UK! I mean it's YOUR car, you oughtta have a right to modify it without paying insurance premiums on the mods (if you don't mind the idea of losing them in an accident). But I guess they figure they should be able to cream you with higher premiums because you now drive a "faster" car. *shrugs* I dunno ... maybe it is that way here ... my friends could have just gotten very very lucky. Hopefully the good luck is contaigious!

 

[murphwiz]

Originally posted by Manders:
[qb]Anyone had any experience of BSR?

[/qb][/b]

I've got a speedparts upgrade on my 9-5, which is a re-branded BSR, delivers everything promised

I bought mine from Elkparts when they first started importing them, and have done 20k miles with it fitted without any issues!

Also worth looking at other tuners, such as Maptun , Abbott and Hirsch .
Although they don't offer quite the same bang per buck as speedparts/BSR...
I think theres a broad range of users off all above tuners products on the board, so comments and experiences will be plentiful

 

[sgould]

Just a reminder that Saabscene does not and cannot support the use of any vehicle without it being fully roadworthy and driven and used in a correct manner as prescribed by the laws of your particular country.

 

[sgould]

Just a layman's view of the insurance position in the UK.

You are legally required to insure your car against any third party liability. This means that you have the means to pay for the repair of any other car, building, garden, fence, wall, street, lamppost, bollard etc. etc. that you may damage while using the car. It also means that you will be able to pay for any medical bills or even long term care that is required by any person injured in a car accident for which you are responsible. This includes your passengers.

You do not have to insure your own car or any of the bits on it.

The UK law (and probably most other places) requires that you are responsible for accurately describing your car. If the insurance company find that the car is not as you described it, they are not liable to pay. This will have two results:

1. You will have to pay for all damage and medical bills to any third party involved in your accident.

2. You may be deemed to have been driving while uninsured, which is a criminal offence.

 

[California Saab Tuner]

But if you describe a heavily upgraded car, even with purely liability insurance they will be able to raise your rates. I wonder if the courts would see "accurately described" to mean something more like paint color, or body style. Like for instance if you got a bodykit, or repainted it, or perhaps installed a different motor entirely. How would they draw the line between engine repairs and modifications? I've never heard of being required to inform your insurance company if you changed the oil filter brand. Obviously that's an extreme example, but you get my point. Does anyone know how courts have treated the issue in the past? Or how insurance companies have handled it?

 

[mark e]

It's very simple Adrian- I'll add this summary then perhaps we can leave this and get back on topic

The insurance company requires that you fully declare all relevant details of your car so that they can assess the risk. Your premium is then governed by the perceived risk from the insurers point of view. Anything that materially alters your vehicle from the description and understanding the insurers have is therefore likely to change that risk. This is very easy to prove in court if needs be.

The change in risk may be cosmetic which might make the vehicle more of a target for thieves/vandals, or in performance. It is a fact that higher powered versions of the same model of car carry a higher risk of an accident, so it is reasonable for the insurers to increase the premium to reflect this.

In general, if replacement parts are of a similar specification and performance, that is OK.

Now can we move on...

 

[California Saab Tuner]

Yes, back to BSR upgrades. I believe Vigge has one on his Viggen. I noticed after watching his video that my car pauses slightly (very slightly) at base boost before proceeding to boost target. Not that the boost actually stops, but rather doesn't proceed linearly from pressing down the throttle to when max boost is reached. I'm guessing this is programmed into the ECU and I was wondering though if other Viggen owners noticed the same effect after an upgrade. Like a drop in boost lag even with just an ECU. Any comments?

 

[Vigge]

Originally posted by Adrian W:
[qb]Yes, back to BSR upgrades.  I believe Vigge has one on his Viggen.  I noticed after watching his video that my car pauses slightly (very slightly) at base boost before proceeding to boost target.  Not that the boost actually stops, but rather doesn't proceed linearly from pressing down the throttle to when max boost is reached.  I'm guessing this is programmed into the ECU and I was wondering though if other Viggen owners noticed the same effect after an upgrade.  Like a drop in boost lag even with just an ECU.  Any comments? [/qb][/b]

Hello Adrian W,

First question, do you have an external boost gauge on your car or is the above written based on the stock "turbo" gauge reading. There are few things that should be remembered when making conclusions based on that gauge. Fisrtly it is very grunge and secondly it does not read mainfold pressure, like old T5 cars, but air flow at MAF. Now if you try to translate the reading to boost it is far from accurate. Let me explain because I dont remember if this has been posted on this site before.
If we look at a stock Viggen like yours is, we know the following about boost.
rpm boost
3000 1.0 Bar
4000 0.9 Bar
5500 0.7 Bar
6000 0.6 Bar

Now what does the stock gauge show? If I remember correctly the gauge will raise quicly to target air flow, to beginning of red at the gauge and stay there until red line. So why not does the gauge show that boost it dropping at higher rpms? The stock gauge shows air flow at MAF. If the air flow remains the same, which it does based on the gauge boost must drop because the engine will "take" more air when revolving faster. Make sence? You are a smart guy and I believe you get what I'am aiming at. I not please let me know and I will try to write it in more detail.

About boost lag, you're correct with stage I the engine will boost more quicly. Dont know what ECU parameters are modified though.