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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I bought my 1994 2.3FPT, the brakes were worse than a Mark 1 Golf GTi, and I repeatedly nearly ran into things. Having scoured the various websites of the usual suspects, and being limited by 15" wheels, I bought EBC Green Stuff pads and their matching grooved and blind drilled discs (6 grooves or so) for each corner, and some Aeroquip hoses.

Whilst it's better than before, it's still not what I would like. The first couple of stops are poor, with a wooden pedal feel, and after they warm up the brakes start to make rumbling noises, although they still stop OK. The brakes are never that reassuring, and activation of the ABS only occurs when banana skins or diesel are encountered.

Any suggestions?
 

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My suggestion would be to ditch the Greenstuff pads. I had the same experience with them - they seemed fine for a while, then started getting noisy with inconsistent performance. I chucked them away after hitting a dog (not very hard, thankfully) which I should easily have been able to avoid.

I have had great results from Mintex C-Tech pads. These are an "1144" competition compound and give much better bite than standard pads, even when cold, and are pretty fade-resistant, as I have experienced on the track. I have also used Trent Saab's Ferodo DS2500 (modified Ferrari Testarossa) pads and while they hold up better on the track, the Mintex pads perform better in everyday driving.

I have bought them from both Howe Engineering in Herts and Euro Car Parts (who list them as "Textar C-Tech" for some reason, but they are Mintex). ECP were cheaper.

I currently use these pads on the rear with the Ferodos on the front, which seems to work well on track days.

Observe the bedding-in procedure for the Mintex pads (or Ferodo pads for that matter). Being designed for competition, they are designed to be bedded in within a few minutes, given the correct procedure, and this is essential for them to work properly from cold. Well worth the effort, though.
 

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P.S. with this pad combination, ATE powerdiscs on the front and super-grippy Bridgestone S-03s, I have made the ABS perform on a few occasions on a dry racetrack, so they must be reasonable.

Do you have a lot of dead travel in your brake pedal?
 

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Chuck the Greenstuff away. They really are awful. I even used them with Group N discs and they were still absolute tosh after a few thousand miles. I changed to Ferodo DS2500 all round and the transformation was startling and very welcome.

I've no experience of EBC discs, so can't comment on the performance. However, I can't quite see the justification for grooving AND cross drilling . I suspect it may be a marketing image statement as their target purchasers are really the hot hatch brigade.

The rumbling you are hearing is a characteristic of grooved discs- they are noisy under heavy braking.
 

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Originally posted by Bubbles (fka Mark E):
[qb]The rumbling you are hearing is a characteristic of grooved discs- they are noisy under heavy braking. [/qb][/b]
Indeed, but I had the Greenstuff pads rumble even on plain discs. After switching to the ATE Powerdiscs, there was indeed more noise, which I attributed to the grooves. This went away when I ditched the Greenstuff, except under really heavy braking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for all the info guys - I'm glad it's not just me!

BillJ, no I do not have a lot of pedal travel. I have nice fresh DOT 5.1 too. I agree about the pad noise, Green Stuff rumbles even on smooth discs and I had a lengthy discussion with EBC about it, with some woolly explanation from them that didn't make any sense at all. Mind you, I have also had some 1144 pads rumble on smooth discs, but that was some years ago.

I was wrong about the discs. Looking back at the receipt, they are Red Dot fronts and EBC rears. I seem to recall that Demon Tweeks had a great deal of difficulty working out what 9000s used and repeatedly sent the wrong items. These were the first that actually fitted.

I will buy two sets of 1144 pads and give them a try. Unfortunately ECP are out of stock.

Thanks again.
 

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Originally posted by Mark B:
[qb]Mind you, I have also had some 1144 pads rumble on smooth discs, but that was some years ago.[/qb][/b]
I haven't tried them on smooth discs on the front. After chucking the Greenstuff in disgust, I refitted the Saab pads while I looked for an alternative. I can report that the 1144 pads were hardly any noisier than the Saab pads, if at all, apart from slight brake squeal occasionally while crawling in traffic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I spotted somewhere (one of the sister websites I think) that someone was using Pagid "Fast Road" pads. I've had good experience with these in other cars, but they were not available for the 9000 when I was looking (or I didn't look hard enough).

Has anyone used them?
Are they good?
Where did you buy them?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for all the braking comments on this and the Carlsson Traction thread.

Euro CP have no Mintex pads. Trent Saab have front DS2500. Howe Engineering have front Mintex only, but are trying to get rears.

2 questions:

1) Who sells DS2500 rears?
2) Do I go for Mintex all round, DS2500 all round, or DS2500 front/Mintex rear?
 

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DS2500 rear are definitely available from:

CIRCUIT SUPPLIES (U.K.) Ltd
Unit 22, Harmill Industrial Estate, Grovebury Road, Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, LU7 8FF.
Tel: (01525) 385888
Fax: (01525) 385898

Price is circa £40-50 for the rears (about half the price Trent charged me first time
- ). I might be able to find the invoice at home later to confirm. Even the big AP caliper ones were only about £90, so quite cheap compared to some others!

Part no IIRC for the rear is FCP296. They can be a bit of a tight fit. BillJ might be able to tell you the part number for the front. I can't cos I've got APs.

NOTE: Edited 16/01 to correct error in brake pad part number
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks again guys.

Could you please confirm how well the DS2500 pads work from cold?

And Bubbles, where did you buy the AP 4 pots, how much, what size wheels are needed etc, oh and the grille??
 

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Never had any problems with DS2500 from cold; but I've only run them on Group N grooved and AP discs.

I bought my AP's from Trent; not the cheapest but they were the only folk readily supplying DS2500 at the time. It's now the standard issue pad with kits. List price is circa £1300 plus VAT. Go to the AP Website and phone around the dealers for best price.

If you buy the kit and only want to use it for road, then go for cross-drilled because they're quieter. If you want to do any track days then get grooved, preferably the sinsusoidal rather than radialish ones. This is because if you don't warm them up properly, there's so much bite form the DS2500's that you can get stress fractures emanating from the holes. This is the advice from AP.

Wheels needed are at least 17 x 7J; I've got Wheelmania Rimstock RVR IIs. Not all 17's will be OK though.

The grille is my own work, stainless steel mesh from RS components.
 

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Bear in mind, MarkB, that the FCP256H parts are actually for the Ferrari Testarossa and B-M M3. Trent Saab grind them slightly to fit the 9000 caliper, although I believe the modification required is minimal. If you buy those parts off the shelf, they won't fit.

I'm pretty happy with my DS2500s for a road car. If I weren't using it on the track, I think I'd stick to the 1144.

ECP do list the 1144 front and rear, although they may be out of stock. As I said before, I'm using the 1144 on the rear. Mintex brand them as "C-Tech". ECP list them as "Textar C-Tech" for some odd reason. Think I'll get on their forum and ask why...
 

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Originally posted by BillJ:
[qb]Bear in mind, MarkB, that the FCP256H parts are actually for the Ferrari Testarossa and B-M M3. Trent Saab grind them slightly to fit the 9000 caliper, although I believe the modification required is minimal. If you buy those parts off the shelf, they won't fit.
[/qb][/b]
Sorry, forgot to mention that bit


It's only a matter of about a mm or so on the retaining lugs- they will actually fit in some 9000 calipers wihtout grinding depending on tolerancing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for all that good stuff.

Euro CP are just out of stock of the Mintex pads, with no real idea when they might get some, and an overwhelming desire to sell me some standard pads.
 
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