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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Following the disintergration of the rear jockey wheel the auxilary drive belt came off (on a very cold andfrosty night!). Neo Bros have v efficently supplied me with new belt, jockey wheel, tensioner wheel and auto tensioner. My mechanic fitted them OK and then we discovered that the belt was 50mm too long (2600mm vice 2550mm of the original, which has been cut). Quick chat with the Neo Bros revealed that they have sent me the wrong belt. As my car has got ACC it should have been the 'long belt'. I think I have a 900 2.3 belt instead. Anyway a new belt will be dispatched to me tomorrow.

My question is has any one got a diagram of how the belt should be threaded? Either with or without the AC compressor?

As you can imagine 50mm difference had us trying all sorts of combinations. As usual the Haynes manual is less than useless. Neo Bros faxed me a diagram from an Autodata manual which had one jockey wheel missing! Apparently they alway have problems when threading these.

And to answer the obvious question why I didn't notice the difference earlier I did check them roughly as I had been told that the short belt for the 9000 2.3 (i.e. without ac compressor) is about 8 inches shorter so it is obvious if you have got the right belt!

Any one with a threading diagram pse?

Gavin Short
2.3 Turbo Auto lpg (on axle stands!)
 

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Gavin,

If I recall correctly (and perhaps I don't) there is a picture of the engine in the Qwner's Handbook which shows the belt threaded around the various components. I'll have a look at mine tonight. My car is also a 2.3 with ACC so I could look at the car as well - except it will be dark!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Derek

thanks for looking. I think you will be disappointed with the Haynes manual as it only gives the diagram for the earlier 'double belt' installation. Anyway I have had success courtesy of our american cousins - a picture!

http://quasimotors.gar.net/beltview.htm

and the instructions are at

http://quasimotors.gar.net/belt_install.htm

note the links to the compression tool and also the routing of the belt

..much better than a Haynes manual

Quasi's overall site looks good. Try it at

http://quasimotors.gar.net/default.htm

New auxillary belt arrives tomorrow (2553mm is the correct length apparently).

If this is 'old hat for most of the mebers then pse ignore'.


Gavin Short
2.3 Turbo Auto lpg (Still on axle stands but hopefully not for much longer!)
 
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Gavin,
My Owners manual,(car handbook) has a picture of the belt threading in it. Having had this problem at work (on a F*rd!), I know that it can take many tries to get the belt routing right after a breakage.
Changing the subject slightly, do I gather that your 9000 Turbo has an LPG conversion? If so, any comments on it? I thought Turbos were difficult to convert. Who did yours? I'd be very interested to know. Also, where's the tank & how big?

Thanks
Pete
Gloucester
UK
'91 9000S 2.3 Turbo
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Pete

New belt, auto tensioner, tensioner wheel and rear idler wheel fitted. Runs much quieter now. I have just checked my owner's manual. There are 2 diagrams/pictures there but not mine! I may have been misleading you slightly. My car was registered on 19 Nov 1991 and is a model year '92 so should I be refering to it as a '92?

The diagrams in the owner's handbook show a single belt with a manual tensioner or a 2 belt set up with an auto tensioner. Mine the the last of the three permutations which is; Alternator, Rear idler wheel, PAS, tensioner wheel (with Auto tensioner), Crankshaft, Water pump and a/c pump all on one multigroove belt!

These 2 links tell the story:
http://quasimotors.gar.net/beltview.htm
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/9000/index.h....html?bID=60738

LPG. I bought my car in Mid Nov 00. It had been fitted with a Landi-Renzo lpg conversion (Italian maufacturer) in July 98. The firm that did the conversion are no longer trading, for non-lpg reasons. The sole importers of my system are Eco Gas systems ltd at Bidford-on-Avon http://www.ecogas.co.uk/index.htm<br />and they have many trained and approved fitters throughout the country. The system fitted can be viewed at http://www.landi.it/<br />with my particular system at http://www.landi.it/catalogo/gple/sgpl1e.htm<br />which comprises a 85 litre tank in the boot behind the rear seats which can still fold down (the SAAB boot is huge) which will take 68 litres (80% of tank capacity) to allow for expansion. Toroidal tanks (doughnut shaped) in the spare wheel well are now available. There is a filler neatly plumbed into the bodywork. Under the bonnet is a vaporiser (reducer) that takes liquid lpg and turns it into gas (engine coolant routed through the vaporiser keeps it from freezing - expansion of gases!) and the gas is injected into the inlet track. The flow is controlled by a stepper motor which is managed by the lpg ECU, which uses the lambda probe and other sensors to control the flow of gas. There is another box that emulates the action of the injectors so that the orginal SAAB ECU is happy. On the dash is a simple 2 position switch - petrol or gas which you can change over on the move or when stationary. There is also a 5 led gauge (4 green, 1 red) as a crude indication of the gas remaining in the tank.


When selected to gas the car starts on petrol, and after about a second automatically switches over to gas (when the lpg ECU senses that the engine is running it opens the various gas solenoids).

I have driven 2,300 miles on gas (I think the car has done about 18,000 miles on gas before that). No problems! One bonus is that the car heats up in the mornings a lot quicker (lpg doesn't need a choke to enrichen the mixture on start up).

I can't tell the difference between lpg and petrol in terms of performance despite switching back and forwards on a number of occasions. The engine is slightly quieter on gas and the exhaust is certainly a lot more pleasant (a bit like a gas heater).

There are 610 lpg outlets in UK. see http://www.lpga.co.uk/fr_ab_lp.htm for more details. Prices are typically between about 36 and 42p a litre.

The tank gives a range of about 240 miles before needing a top up. There is 74% of the energy in a litre of lpg compared with petrol so direct comparision of mpg is not very helpful. Pence per mile is. I have averaged 9 to 10p per mile vice on petrol 13-14 p per mile (the petrol cost is an estimate as I still have a full tank of petrol from when I bought the car) - its uncanny looking at the full guage after 2,300 miles. What is your petrol mpg? Are you manual or Auto?

An advocate of lpg is Tim Hewett who has an excellent web site at http://www.dotslashslash.com/LPG/LPG.htm with plenty of links to more info. He has a picture story board of his set up (lovato) but the principles are very similar to mine.

I know of 3 other SAAB 9000 lpg conversions (one being a Griffin). The latest SAAB owner's club magazine has an article.

I think my car's lpg mpg could be better and I am going to get it gas analysed and the lpg ECU checked out on a laptop next month.

The only down side was that the original installation was not upto the Code of Practice standard (COP 11) and as a professional engineer I couldn't let that slide. So it has cost me 16 hours labour and some more bracketry to make the tank location, lpg fuel pipe to engine bay and vaporiser bracket top line. Annoying to have to have it done but my peace of mind is much better.

Overall I am very happy. The car is a very different beast to my previous Carlsson. 'More a mature businessman's express rather than a turbo boy-racer' as my wife puts it.

The lpg industry is still new in UK (mature in Holland, Italy and Australia). There are a lot of new installer's out there and as expected there are some less than happy customers as a result. But 1,000,000 Italian drivers and 400,000 Autralian drivers can't all be unhappy! If you think about it the problem for the installer is that he has to match the ECU mapped characteristics of your car (as developed by the manuafacurers at great expense) with the lpg ECU characteristics that he is installing - some installers will be more skilled at this than others). Typical installation can be from about £1200 to £2000. Depending on your mileage depends on how quickly you will recoup the cost and make saving. My car had the bonus that it was already fitted.

Oh and a final bonus... I haven't had to queue at an lpg pump yet!

Hope you find this of interest

Gavin
'92? 9000 CSE 2.3 Turbo Auto lpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Pete

New belt, auto tensioner, tensioner wheel and rear idler wheel fitted. Runs much quieter now. I have just checked my owner's manual. There are 2 diagrams/pictures there but not mine! I may have been misleading you slightly. My car was registered on 19 Nov 1991 and is a model year '92 so should I be refering to it as a '92?

The diagrams in the owner's handbook show a single belt with a manual tensioner or a 2 belt set up with an auto tensioner. Mine the the last of the three permutations which is; Alternator, Rear idler wheel, PAS, tensioner wheel (with Auto tensioner), Crankshaft, Water pump and a/c pump all on one multigroove belt!

These 2 links tell the story:
http://quasimotors.gar.net/beltview.htm
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/9000/index.h....html?bID=60738

LPG. I bought my car in Mid Nov 00. It had been fitted with a Landi-Renzo lpg conversion (Italian maufacturer) in July 98. The firm that did the conversion are no longer trading, for non-lpg reasons. The sole importers of my system are Eco Gas systems ltd at Bidford-on-Avon http://www.ecogas.co.uk/index.htm<br />and they have many trained and approved fitters throughout the country. The system fitted can be viewed at http://www.landi.it/<br />with my particular system at http://www.landi.it/catalogo/gple/sgpl1e.htm<br />which comprises a 85 litre tank in the boot behind the rear seats which can still fold down (the SAAB boot is huge) which will take 68 litres (80% of tank capacity) to allow for expansion. Toroidal tanks (doughnut shaped) in the spare wheel well are now available. There is a filler neatly plumbed into the bodywork. Under the bonnet is a vaporiser (reducer) that takes liquid lpg and turns it into gas (engine coolant routed through the vaporiser keeps it from freezing - expansion of gases!) and the gas is injected into the inlet track. The flow is controlled by a stepper motor which is managed by the lpg ECU, which uses the lambda probe and other sensors to control the flow of gas. There is another box that emulates the action of the injectors so that the orginal SAAB ECU is happy. On the dash is a simple 2 position switch - petrol or gas which you can change over on the move or when stationary. There is also a 5 led gauge (4 green, 1 red) as a crude indication of the gas remaining in the tank.


When selected to gas the car starts on petrol, and after about a second automatically switches over to gas (when the lpg ECU senses that the engine is running it opens the various gas solenoids).

I have driven 2,300 miles on gas (I think the car has done about 18,000 miles on gas before that). No problems! One bonus is that the car heats up in the mornings a lot quicker (lpg doesn't need a choke to enrichen the mixture on start up).

I can't tell the difference between lpg and petrol in terms of performance despite switching back and forwards on a number of occasions. The engine is slightly quieter on gas and the exhaust is certainly a lot more pleasant (a bit like a gas heater).

There are 610 lpg outlets in UK. see http://www.lpga.co.uk/fr_ab_lp.htm for more details. Prices are typically between about 36 and 42p a litre.

The tank gives a range of about 240 miles before needing a top up. There is 74% of the energy in a litre of lpg compared with petrol so direct comparision of mpg is not very helpful. Pence per mile is. I have averaged 9 to 10p per mile vice on petrol 13-14 p per mile (the petrol cost is an estimate as I still have a full tank of petrol from when I bought the car) - its uncanny looking at the full guage after 2,300 miles. What is your petrol mpg? Are you manual or Auto?

An advocate of lpg is Tim Hewett who has an excellent web site at http://www.dotslashslash.com/LPG/LPG.htm with plenty of links to more info. He has a picture story board of his set up (lovato) but the principles are very similar to mine.

I know of 3 other SAAB 9000 lpg conversions (one being a Griffin). The latest SAAB owner's club magazine has an article.

I think my car's lpg mpg could be better and I am going to get it gas analysed and the lpg ECU checked out on a laptop next month.

The only down side was that the original installation was not upto the Code of Practice standard (COP 11) and as a professional engineer I couldn't let that slide. So it has cost me 16 hours labour and some more bracketry to make the tank location, lpg fuel pipe to engine bay and vaporiser bracket top line. Annoying to have to have it done but my peace of mind is much better.

Overall I am very happy. The car is a very different beast to my previous Carlsson. 'More a mature businessman's express rather than a turbo boy-racer' as my wife puts it.

The lpg industry is still new in UK (mature in Holland, Italy and Australia). There are a lot of new installer's out there and as expected there are some less than happy customers as a result. But 1,000,000 Italian drivers and 400,000 Autralian drivers can't all be unhappy! If you think about it the problem for the installer is that he has to match the ECU mapped characteristics of your car (as developed by the manuafacurers at great expense) with the lpg ECU characteristics that he is installing - some installers will be more skilled at this than others). Typical installation can be from about £1200 to £2000. Depending on your mileage depends on how quickly you will recoup the cost and make saving. My car had the bonus that it was already fitted.

Oh and a final bonus... I haven't had to queue at an lpg pump yet!

Hope you find this of interest

Gavin
'92? 9000 CSE 2.3 Turbo Auto lpg
 
G

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Gavin,
Thanks for all the LPG info. Most interesting! I'm very interested in getting mine 'done'. I wonder if it's cheaper to get the conversion done in Holland? Anyone got any experience of that?
My 9000S 2.3 Turbo (manual) seems to average 27-28mpg in normal round town and short trip running. The best I've ever had was 38mpg towing my trailer tent, but keeping to 55mph max. I was astounded when I worked it out! In one reckless blast when I first had the car, I managed to get the consumption to 8mpg! I won't say what speed that was at though ;-)
Pete
Gloucester
UK
9000S 2.3 Turbo.
 

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I also have a Nov '91 but 1992 model 9000.
The 10th digit of the vin no. tels you the model year. M is '91, N is '92. Mine has an N so confirms it as a '92 as I had believed. ( I only found out about this today but remembered seeing the question here a while ago. )

Nigel
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Nigel
Thanks for the info. The 10th letter is N so I have a '92.

Pete
I have realised I am only getting half boost. I wondered why the car was
such a sluggard since I bought it a month and a half ago - I just thought it
was because it was an Auto after having had a Carlsson! I think my apc solenoid (boost
presure control) is u/s (The one attached on the near side of the radiator
shroud (with R, W and C hoses attached to it)). No click on
attaching/removing the cable with the ignition on. I haven't checked
voltage/impedance at the the cable yet or blown through the pipes yet - I
will do that at home at the weekend. Does anyone know how much are replacements new and
used? Will I have to set the system up from scratch now that it has
'learned half boost' or will a replacement valve give me full boost back
again?

Gavin
 

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Gavin,

APC solenoid valves are now around £110 at the dealer. Test for continuity betwen the centre pin on the valve and each pin on either side. Test for resistance the same way should give a values for both of 3ohms.

To achieve max boost, accelerate at full throttle in the range 2000-3500 rpm.The system learns in the band 2750-3250 rpm and requires at least 3 seconds to do so. Therefore choose a gradient and as high a gear as possible. This is for manual box.

For autos under kickdown, accelerate in the band 3000-4500 rpm, system learns in band 3750-4250.

For more info see http://quasimotors.gar.net/turbo_hoses.htm
 

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Gavin,
Before condemning the APC solenoid, check the turbo bypass valve. It is not uncommon for the diaphragm in these to burst. This results in about 1/2 boost. You will also see very little vacuum on the gauge during overrun.
Check the valve by pulling its vacuum pipe off the manifold and blowing down it. If you can blow air down it it's burst. A new one costs around £30.
 
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