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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everybody

What would be better? With modified ECU stage 1 und large turbo intake pipe. Sport cat or an intercooler upgrade? I know on a T5 car the cat would add around 15-20 Ps and intercooler around 10 Ps but on a T7 i am not sure. Both cost nearly the same.
 

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Hi 9-5 aero,

Welcome to the board.

If you are at altitude the intercooler may well be the best bet. My thinking goes along the lines that by cooling the intake air more you will get more (air)into the cylinders that you may well be loosing at the moment.
In motorsport it's often mentioned that at say Kyalami - (is that spelt correctly?)and other high altitude tracks, the cars are down on power compared to other venues. You might be lower on power at the moment than if you were at sea level due to less oxygen getting into the cylinders, by cooling down the intake charge you will gain some of this back.
Nick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok i understand it but i am at low altitude and i just want to get 15-20 Ps more from the car. That's the limit i think with the stock turbo.
Until now i have ECU stage 1 (260 ps) and intake pipe for the turbo.
 

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Intercooler- no question about it. It gives you similar benefits of reduced pick up owing to lower intake resistance, plus makign the intake charge significantly cooler (denser) thus giving more power/torque at pretty much all revs.

I've done both on my car (seperately). The intercooler was by far the biggest difference.
 

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Mark, personal experience is paramount in a situation like this so your advice is most likely the best advice. There is however one thing in my mind regarding your situation that differs from 9-5 aero's. I imagine the 9-5 intercooler is much more substantial than the stock 9000 intercooler you replaced therefore providing a much larger benefit than could be expected by upgrading a 9-5 intercooler. Just something to consider...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes Mark i know on a T5 car an intercooler would bring a lot (i used to own an NG900set) but on a T7 i am not sure for the difference. Stage 3 is for example only with sport cat available.
 

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Whilst I agree that the 9000 and 9-5 are not identical, I based my comments on the following...

- the stock size of the 9-5 and 9000 intercooler is pretty similar.

- the difference I observed after replacing the IC (I already had a 2.5" downpipe and cat bypass) was very big. I did this during warmish weather and the effect was like going out on a very, very cold winter day and then some more. When I've driven the car with the cat on, I would say the difference, especially in top end delivery, is still less than that from adding the IC.

- on a 9000 the stock downpipe is fairly restrictive, and the reason tuners recommend replacing it above stage 1 IMO is largely to help keep EGTs down.

- they don't recommend replacement of the downpipe until higher stages of tune on the 9-5, which indicates it is not quite so restrictive. Interestingly enough, the first element that gets replaced seems to be after the cat.

- an intercooler is necessary for higher stages of tune to help reduce intake resistance and intake temperatures. However it will do both just as effectively for lower states of tune.

As for the differences in effect between T5 and T7 cars, I would expect that the reduction in resistance will be within the allowable limits of adaptation of T7, and the lower temps are just like driving on a cooler day.

After all that though, it's still the case that I'm basing this on 9000 experience plus assumptions from the components offered in different stages of tune for a 9-5. Perhaps it might be worth an email to the likes of Maptun to see what they reckon.

HTH
 

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If we aggree that Hirsch should know the best on upgrading an Aero as they have access to Saab data, their all upgrades suggest an intercooler upgrade. It is just the question that would other performance intercoolers bring the same performance as Hirsch and will ECU need to be adjusted for a high performance intercooler. Hirsch probably adjusted their ECU upgrade based on all hardware changes.
http://www.hirsch-performance.com/pdf/95_23aero_modified.pdf

As Maptun and PPC are the most favourite upgrades due to high Hirsch's costs, they differ in suggestions of hardware but non of their stage 3 upgrade doesn't involve an intercooler.
http://www.maptun.co.uk/ecu/9-5/23T250bhp0...stagethree.html
http://www.genuinesaab.com/tuning/pu/PU422.htm

Hardwares options are same for 230HP and 250HP
 

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THe hirsh site is very specific about the logic of improving the complete breathing of the engine for their upgrade with air intake , intercooler, exhaust .

But as has already been mentioned, you would think that a better flow intercooler would produce the same benefit as running the standard intercooler in colder weather. So logically there is every reason to think it will subtlely improve power and no reason i can think off to adapt down as has been shown for other hardware parts as a possibility.
 

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But as has already been mentioned, you would think that a better flow intercooler would produce the same benefit as running the standard intercooler in colder weather. So logically there is every reason to think it will subtlely improve power and no reason i can think off to adapt down as has been shown for other hardware parts as a possibility. [/QB][/b]
A better/bigger IC will flow alot better than stock. Its good, but it has downsides aswell.

My viggen produced about 10hp more with a big IC, but leaned out on the process. After fiddling with A/F the end result was 6hp. Car was dynoed in a same dyno before and after IC istall, so conditons should have been equal.

With the downsides I ment that Trionic needs to adjust the calibrated MAF point via lambda, because it no longer represents the engines changed HW. Read the discussin "aero 250hp tuning" to find a more detail story about the issue.

Personal experience for me stated that my car leaned out after IC swap. A frind of mine did a similar job to his 9-3 aero and his car boosted +2.0bar with company X's SW. He changed to company Y and boost dropped to normal. My advice, be careful when you change HW on a T7 car, it will not always work out the best way.
 

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It sounds like the trionic 7 has built in expectancy maps for almost every scenario of the existing software / hardware possibilities and therefore any changes from these multiple expectancies is seen as a possible danger and it adapts down to stay on safe side.

Im certainly not changing anything (software or hardware) on mine without incredible detailed logic from the specifiers of the change on how it improves and what side effects if any on the downside
 
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