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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Thinking about replacing my 2005 9-5 2.2 TiD & really like the new 2010-2011 9-5 2.0 diesel. But can anyone confirm if it is chain driven or belt driven. If crappy rubber belt, then afraid it's gonna be an E-class Merc :rolleyes:
 

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Its the same FIAT//JTD engine A20DTH that is in the Insignias and very similar to the Z19DTH engines in the 9-3 which need the cambelt changing say every 75K.
Its an easy DIY though and the engines are pretty good imho easily averaging 50mpg even with auto gearboxes.
Even it the belt fails the rockers tend to sacrifice themselves so not much engine damage occurs.

Would love one of them myself!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys for the input & advice ;)

Why-oh-why can't they put chains on the diesels like they do on the petrols ?....rubber belts make the engine a couple of lbs lighter, but they increase the customer servicing costs ! :confused:

Anyway, I much prefer the last Saab to any Merc E-class....it's got so much more class, looks & leg room. Considering it's the same engine as the Vauxhall Insignia, then a cam belt change every 75K miles may not be so hard on the wallet.....just as long as the cambelt is strong enough to last the distance that Saab state.

cjapeterborough....I'm assuming that this engine is an interference engine (most are nowadays), so having the belt snap will most likely make the valves slap against the cylinders & cause major internal damage....right or wrong ? :)

Just out of interest, does anyone know how much it costs for a cambelt/water pump change ?
 

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Had my 1.9 tid , cambelt , water pump , tensioners, alternator belt , plus antifreeze. All in £330.00p
In my personal opinion, I would not chance a cambelt above 4 years , or 40.000 miles .
Very little outlay to guard against complete engine replacement , if it were to snap .
 

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To be fair, it's rarely the fault of the cambelt snapping all by itself, it's often waterpump failure that causes the belt to snap, that is why I believe Fiat revised the waterpump from the early days. Still as Lizzard and others have pointed out, 40k or 4 years between changes, belt and pump, is a sensible worthwhile precaution and some Fiat techs who are honest with customers and themselves, will readily admit that 40k changes are wise.

Don't forget too, worth having a full coolant swap out at the same time. Coolant is long life, not 'for life'.
 

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Thanks guys for the input & advice ;)

Why-oh-why can't they put chains on the diesels like they do on the petrols ?....rubber belts make the engine a couple of lbs lighter, but they increase the customer servicing costs ! :confused:

Chains arent foolproof..on the 9-5 petrols they wear and can need changing before 100K depending on your luck and its usually an engine out job to do it thoroughly changing guides and such.The engine are all interference diesel or petrol.

Anyway, I much prefer the last Saab to any Merc E-class....it's got so much more class, looks & leg room. Considering it's the same engine as the Vauxhall Insignia, then a cam belt change every 75K miles may not be so hard on the wallet.....just as long as the cambelt is strong enough to last the distance that Saab state.

A chain or belt can fail at anytime its just less likely the more often you change. I think Saab originally specified 100K but that came down to I think officially 72K for the belt.

cjapeterborough....I'm assuming that this engine is an interference engine (most are nowadays), so having the belt snap will most likely make the valves slap against the cylinders & cause major internal damage....right or wrong ? :)

The rockers above the hydraulic lifters are designed to fail (ie snap) if the engine suffers a belt failure so usually a rebuild is cheap ie say you break 50% then 8 lifters at say £40 pus labour and cambelt kit etc
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-ASTRA-SIGNUM-VECTRA-ZAFIRA-1-9-CDTI-Z19DTH-Z19-DTH-Engine-Rocker-Arm-/121628807097?hash=item1c51a44fb9:g:vgEAAOSwAHZUQJ8M

Just out of interest, does anyone know how much it costs for a cambelt/water pump change ?
Its a fairly easy DIY and the cambelt kits including water pump are relatively cheap say about £100.
I picked up a Dayco kit on amazon including water pump last summer for £60 so not a huge cost
I would expect to be charged £250-£350 for a garage to do the job ...an independant Vauxhall/Fiat garage is likely the cheapest route
 

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IMHO you would have to be doing motorway driving to achieve 50mpg! My 1.9TiD auto achieves 40mpg most of the time. I guess the manual must be at least 5mpg better?
 

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I regularly have to go back and forth from Pboro to Belfast and easily get over 50mpg with my 1.9TID Vert and average about 45mpg with mixed driving for the 1000 miles I do whilst away.If you were doing mostly town driving then I could see it easily dropping to around 40mpg.

I recently had to use my Aero Estate petrol auto which achieved 30mpg and 25mpg respectively for the trip although I did have a top box fully + significant other and labrador.

I will shortly be investing in a diesel 9-3 Sportwagon as I cant ignore those running costs for too long and despite my love of the Aero it will have to go!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
cjapeterborough (can I call you cjapete ? in future), I bow to your superior knowledge....& everyone elses who know alot more about this vehicle than I do :)
There are a few around for sale, but they are coming up at silly prices for a seven year old car. If I see one that is reasonably priced & has just had the cambelt/water pump etc done, then I may be tempted :)
 

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Saabs at the moment are in my opinion over priced . Don't know why , but I think dealers are doing it , and the private seller is following.
Even if you can find one that has had the cambelt done even 2 years ago and they have bill to prove with date and mileage , ( as long as it's had cambelt , water pump and tensions)
And it has not done excessive mileage then it's a good start ,
You could always haggle on price if it's a good example but cambelt history is a bit wobbly .
 

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I would love to buy one but they are definately over priced especially when compared to the Insignia which frankly is more or less the same car.
The Saab is rare and appeals to a certain type of customer and from a dealers perspective rarity means high price when you are buying and low if you were selling to them!
The best deal would be had buying privately as dealer prices are at least 25% higher.

I would dearly love a 2012 TTID Aero Vert but again finding a good one for less than £10K in a decent colour is a needle in haystack!
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
A friend of mine has a Vauxhall Insignia 2.0 diesel & is having the cambelt done next week at 95K miles....dealer recommends change at 100K miles.....So why does the Saab 9-5 with the same engine have to have a new cambelt at anywhere between 40K & 75K miles ?
I think some people on this site are being a little over cautious.....treating the car like a fragile puppy ?

To be honest, who would be fool enough buy a diesel car that was renowned to regularly snap a belt before it hit 80K miles ;)
 

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A friend of mine has a Vauxhall Insignia 2.0 diesel & is having the cambelt done next week at 95K miles....dealer recommends change at 100K miles.....So why does the Saab 9-5 with the same engine have to have a new cambelt at anywhere between 40K & 75K miles ?
I think some people on this site are being a little over cautious.....treating the car like a fragile puppy ?

To be honest, who would be fool enough buy a diesel car that was renowned to regularly snap a belt before it hit 80K miles ;)
The engines don't regularly snap cambelts before they hit 80k miles. The problem is, that for many folk, basic essential maintenance just goes out of the window, so belts that should be changed at say the 5 year point, it gets missed or forgotten, or the owner sells the car on before they have to spend the money changing the belt/tensioners and waterpump. And of course then there's no record of the job being done, or you have car resellers claiming the belt has been changed when it hasn't. For lots of owners, even changing the oil and filter is just too much hassle!

The thing is with cambelts, whether anyone chooses to believe it or not, they do actually have a shelf life. Stored on the shelf in ideal conditions, it is about 8 years, but then if you're say fitting an already old stock 8 year old cambelt into an engine and expecting to get 100,000 mile out of it, you're probably being a tad optimistic. So this is another reason why you hear reports of people having a brand new cambelt fitted that snaps just two or three years down the line with less than 50k covered. If the waterpump didn't seize and cause the belt to snap, then the likelihood is, a well past its shelf life cambelt was fitted. This is why when I bought the Fiat cambelt/waterpump kit for my own car, I specifically checked the stock date on the box before purchase and with Fiat, they put it on the box, so my kit was made in 2012. Just how many folk would go to the trouble of checking that!

At the end of the day, my personal view on this is, if like me you know the absolute history of the vehicle because in my case, I've owned it since brand new, then as long as you keep on top of maintenance and change parts that you know ought to be changed, then it really shouldn't be an issue. This is why I won't be getting the cambelt/waterpump and tensioners changed again on my own car, until January 2019, or exactly 5 years (45k miles) after the last change, by which time the car should then have around 70k miles on the odometer. In case you're wondering, yes, I do keep my cars for years, usually between 10 and 12 years before parting with them, though with this one, I'm aiming for end of life (of the car that is!)
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Good advice Caddyman & good point about the manufacture date of a rubber belt, as we all know that rubber does perish, even when stored on a shelf....just like tyres do ;)
For me personally, being a hackney carriage driver for twenty years, I do do alot more miles than most & so I need a car that isn't going to be too high maintenance.
The first car I bought to use as a taxi was a MK1 Mondeo 1.8 diesel back in 1997 & that had to have a new rubber belt every 30K miles :(
Since then I have always bought cars with chain driven engines & have never had any maintenance costs at all regarding timing chains. Obviously water pumps do need replacing every so often, but when you have a timing chain engine, then the water pump generally runs from the serpentine belt.

My last car before the Saab 9-5 was a Ford Scorpio 2.3 Ultima which I sold with just under 300K miles on the clock & still running on the original timing chain :)
 
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