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Discussion Starter #1
I used to have a 9000 2.3 Carlsson, and am afraid that the 9-5 Aero would be a trifle timid. I've heard that the power delivery in a 9000 Aero is more subtle than the 2.3 carly's Brick in the face approach - is this the same for the 9-5 Aero?

Undoubtedly the 9-5 Aero is very quick, but how does it deliver the power?

For more mental acceleration would I be looking at a 9-3 Viggen?

How do the two compare off the mark and in mid range?

I love the 9-5, but would want something as close as possible to the brutal power delivery of the 2.3 Carlsson. Is the Viggen my bag?

Am I right in saying the Viggen is 2.3?

Finally how much does the Viggen Rescue Pack cost to be fiited (if there are still any out there without it!)

I know "H" had a similar thread to this a few months back, but I couldn't find it!

Ooh, one final question - what year(s) was the Viggen available?

Ta.
 

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Kev, I've not driven a 9-5 Aero or a 9-3 Viggen, but I have driven tuned versions of the 9-5 and 9-3 with comparable power outputs. I'll make my comments relative to my 9000, which is more of an animal than the Carly.

First off, the 9-5 comes in with a significant weight penalty- about 200kg heavier than the 9000 IIRC, so that's going to lose a bit of edge.

The 9-5 is a much more refined car, and intrinsically feels better on the road than the 9-3, which itself doesn't feel quite as stable as the 9000. However I haven't driven a 9-3 with a rescue pack- perhaps Mark A would be able to comment.

Given the meight penalty, for the same engine it doesn't take much to see that the Viggen will be quicker than the 9-5.

However, I reckon you'll pay a significant price penalty to own a Viggen. I'd have thought you woudl be better off with an Aero and tuning that.

Just a few thoughts to kick things off...
 

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Like Mark E I've not driven a 9-5 Aero either although I've owned VRK'd Viggen for nearly 9 months now. The Viggen and 9-5 Aero share the same engine the B235R so at least there's some common ground there.

I'd have to say having driven modded 900/9-3's that have the same and one with a little more power than mine, that the delivery of that power is completely different with the B235R engine. It's very smooth and has more pull lower down the rev range and also above 4000. It actually has less turbo lag, despite the larger turbo than a standard 9-3, mainly thanks to some clever ECU and electronic throttle desgin work by Saab.

The Viggen is lighter so that would give it an advantage in the urgency stakes too.

I've managed to find the original quote Giles sent me for the VRK...

Supply Viggen Rescue Kit £495.00
Labour on Fitting £85.00
Sub Total £580.00
VAT £101.50
TOTAL £681.50

I think getting their uprated rear anti-roll bar is worthwhile too, which is something like £145 + VAT and £15.00 to fit.

Mark is correct, getting a Viggen into a sorted state is not cheap, it all depends on if you think it's worth it.

Oh, almost forgot, they were available from 99 till 01/02 depending on if you lived in the states.
 

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Given the meight penalty, for the same engine it doesn't take much to see that the Viggen will be quicker than the 9-5.
 [/b]
But the 9-3 only produces 225bhp
" Performance figures for Viggen.
Power 225 bhp / 167.8 kW @ 5500 rpm
BHP/Liter 98.3
Torque 342 Nm / 252.2 ft lbs @ 2500 - 4000 rpm
Power to weight ratio 0.16 bhp/kg
Top Speed 155.3 mph / 250.0 km/h
0-60 mph Acceleration 6.70 s "

You see! 6.7 seconds 0-60 for the Viggen
9-5 Aero is 6.5 seconds
 

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pre 02 aeros only have 230bhp and 350nm (370nm in overboost)
post 02's 250 with same torque...
0-60's are pretty meaningless, and when your talking about 0.2secs... that nowt, I'd say they are very evenly match with the lighter viggen probably having an edge overall.

My vote however is for the 9-5 aero, doesn't need much doing to the chasis, so money can be better spent of power upgrades


But I don't think you'll find much that is as brutal as a carlsson.. without changing gear ratios anyway
 

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According to the 1999 Viggen brochure, 0-60 times are 6.5 secs for the tin-top and 6.7 secs for the convertible.

Kev, if you're after something with gnarly bonkers acceleration straight out of the box, you might be a little disappointed. Everything since the 9000 Carlsson has been much more refined (= less fun) in the application of power. Mind you, the gearboxes tend to last longer

Best thing to do is test drive a Viggen and an Aero and draw your own conclusions (one man's frantic is another man's sedate, and all that stuff)
 

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Kev, I'm having a similar thought process to you. The carly is an amazing car...but we need a more reliable cheaper to run car.
So I reckon Im going to get the carly sorted and tuned(couple of thousand max)to usefor sunday blasts/transport dogs and baby long distance nad then buy a 9-3 HOT (205hp) which you can get for around 5-6 grand with 50k on the clock. This should be reliable and (relatively) chheap to run.
You then have a far quicker car than the 9-5 aero/9-3 viggen...far more fun to drive. And in toatal for around 7 grand you have 2 cars. Cheapest viggen and 9-5 aero is around 8 grand...with 90k+ on clock
 

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Hi,

1. to sort out most of the Viggen´s suspension problems, all you need are new springs. I know two Viggens that use H&R springs (Kai´s and mine), and they both handle really well, even on stock dampers. The difference to the stock springs is night and day... you have to drive it to believe it.
If you really mind the torque steer (which I don´t), you can also get a stearing rack clamp. Everything else will help, but you really don´t need it to make the viggen a decent handling car.

2. The hp-difference between the Viggen and the 9-5 Aero is just software, but you can´t use the 9-5 Aero software on the Viggen because it isn´t OBD-II (doesn´t have the second lambda sensor, etc.). If you do a ECU upgrade -which is highly recommended - the hp of a 9-5 Aero and a Viggen will be the same.

3. The Viggen is not cheap to run. Although it doesn´t need much fuel, insurance in Germany is very high, much higher than 9-3 Aero or 9000 Aero.

4. If you change the stock exhaust for a 3" system and get Maptun or Nordic software, the Viggen will deliver awesome power (285 hp/450 Nm). Don´t know about the 9-5 Aero, but I guess it will be the same.

Yours,

Philip
 

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In terms of the bald acceleration times for these cars in vanilla flavour, then the Viggen is fastest (but not by much). The difference as Leon says between 9000 & 9-5 aero is all but negligible. If you are keeping them all stock then I believe the 9000 aero is probably marginally quickest on a regular backroad.

If you're not keeping them stock, well....they are all fast depending how much you want to spend.
I'll stick with my 9-5 aero wagon as the best compromise for me and my family.
But I'd also love to own a 9000 aero.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by paulmanchester(now cockermouth):
[qb]Kev, I'm having a similar thought process to you. The carly is an amazing car...but we need a more reliable cheaper to run car.
So I reckon Im going to get the carly sorted and tuned(couple of thousand max)to usefor sunday blasts/transport dogs and baby long distance  nad then buy a 9-3 HOT (205hp) which you can get for around 5-6 grand with 50k on the clock. This should be reliable and (relatively) cheap to run.
You then have a far quicker car than the 9-5 aero/9-3 viggen...far more fun to drive. And in toatal for around 7 grand you have 2 cars. Cheapest viggen and 9-5 aero is around 8 grand...with 90k+ on clock [/qb][/b]
I do like the sound of that!

I'd be looking at standard cars (with the exception of the Rescue Pack) so the above alternative does sound interesting.

Only problem would be finding a superb standard Carlsson Suppose mods on that wouldn't cost much on the insurance as it'd be Classic Insurance.

If I got 9-5 Aero it would definately be the 230BHP one, not the 250 (wouldn't be able to afford that). Really want a hatch - so the price of a 9-5 Aero Wagon almost rules it out before I start! (Having said that Viggen's seem to start at about £9000)

What about the mid range of these two cars (standard). I used to marvel at the 2.3 Carlsson's mid range - 5th gear from 40mph would beat at Fiat Cinqucento Sporting in 3rd gear to 60mph! I know the Fiat isn't exactly a benchmark, but it shows that the Carly can beat a lesser car that's screaming away 2 gears down.

The only car I've driven which comes close to the Carly (actually a little faster!) is the Impreza WRX.

I'm constantly mulling around alternatives for when the Passat goes (only 9 months now
)

they are:

9-3 Viggen
9-5 Aero (preferably Wagon)
9-3 HOT and 2.3 Carlsson (thanks PaulManchester )
company Skoda Octavia RS (180 BHP)
company Skoda Superb PD 130
company Renault Laguna 2.0T (165 BHP)
company Seat Leon Cupra (180 BHP)
Impreza WRX
lowly company car (low tax) plus mental weekender (eg. Renault GTV6 Turbo)

I want a car that makes me say feck me, when I floor it - no namby pamby gentle progress. The Carlsson was the only car I've owned that literally pushes you back in the seat. I don't want a car where you're doing 90mph before you realise it - I want to feel that I'm accelerating rapidly. If I want wafty speed and comfort I'll get a Lexus GS300!
 

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I haven't driven a Carlsson, but I 've driven a whole range of fast Scoobies including the latest STi, and they are all quick.
But I'm not sure I need a car THAT quick all the time. The STi particularly I found exhausting to drive for any length of time because you are constantly chasing the horizon.

I don't want a fast lane lounger like a big Lexus either, so hence the aero wagon.
It's quick enough, comfortable enough, and fun enough while still being able to take the whole family and assorted kit on trips.
 

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Originally posted by kprm77:
[qb]The only car I've driven which comes close to the Carly (actually a little faster!) is the Impreza WRX.

[/qb][/b]
I think the carly is a little quicker - low down I haul them in, then they slowly pull away at top end.(cat bypass might help) Then we get to the corners...


As you said, the only problem is getting a good one. Mine seems to be a never ending heartache. Then you floor it up a steep hill, overtaking 3 cars in one go. With a roof box, 2 dogs, better half and baby and a boot and cabin full of luggage.....
 

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Discussion Starter #17
For that price the car would literally have to be perfect. No make that concours.

I'd also expect the car to have been serviced every 2200 miles, as opposed to 2 services in 12 years


I've asked for some pics so I'll see what it's like.

Doubt he'll get the money though - despite it's low mileage, I'd have thought the absolute maximum would be £5k. He's probably been reading the classifieds in the "Driver" mag too much
 

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I have a 2002 9-3 Viggen ...

Curb Weight with driver and gas: 3360

Wheel hp: 252

Wheel lb ft: 281

0-60 (tested on San Timeteo Canyon Road): 6.32 seconds.

Quarter mile same place: [email protected]

The look on an EVO 8 driver's face when I pull away from him on a moving start in a stock Saab: PRICELESS
 

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Oh and I just read a post about WRX's on here. Hmmm ... from a standstill. Yes they're quick. But the American version is only 227 hp. I don't know what the Euro one is. And the american version also only has between 170-185 wheel horses stock. Which is why my Viggen stomps the living snot out of every stock one I've raced, and a few modified ones, if you have a moving start. From a standstill, if the WRX has a few miles on it, or if the driver doesn't launch juuuust right, the Viggen can still catch up and pass a stocker on the quarter. Not bad since my car has jack for traction. lol I love that last post about the Evo8 too. True story. Yellow EVO8 ... thought he was gonna pass a lil ol Saab 9-3 ... took me till 120 mph to get even ONE car length on him. Those things are QUICK, but he was going slightly faster than me when we started. I talked to him later and he was all "WHat did you DO to that thing" maaan ... I laugh so hard when I told him it was stock and he just stared. lmao I've also beated a 340 Dodge Dart. He was equally upset after her found out my car was completely stock, and a 4cyllinder. (muscle car owners hate gettin' beat by little four bangers over here in the states ) Anyway ... this is fun. I like this place!
 
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