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Discussion Starter #1
Hi

Just for a bit of info really - drove the car over 100k last weekend so this weekend went armed (between the rain!) with Torque Wrench / Gasket etc and re-torqued the head bolts.

They wern't amazingly loose - but I would say that the normal culprits (right hand side) were probabily only tight up to Stage 1 (60Nm). So re-torqued and they are now nice and tight - hopefully that should make the headgasket last a little longer - also threw a new set of plugs in for good measure...

So, I would say that if you are at 100K (or there abouts) and have a spare hour - its a job worth doing

Cheers
Anthony
 

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Hi, is this a common problem leading to head gasket failure then? I don't remember any mention of it when I last owned a 9000.
I ask as I am going to look at a 2.3t Eco at the weekend, it's supposedly 108k with Saab dealer history, owners have had it for 6 yrs.
Would Saab have done this as routine at around 100k - and recorded this on repair schedule?
Cheers.
 

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JayB,

The 9000 is fairly well known for leaking oil from the front N/S corner of the head. This is generally as a result of the head bolts getting a bit loose. I don't know whether they are stretching or if the gasket is getting compressed with the repeated heat / cool cycles. If you were to do search, you would find quite a few references to folks who were seriously surprized just how loose some of the bolts were.

I don't think it is on the 'official' service lists so would probably be itemised as an 'extra' in the history. Of course, if the head has ever been off for any reason then it has been done automatically. Just start counting to 100,000 from there.

Paul @ Kippen.
 

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I was not aware of this issue. My 9000 has gone 130K, so I suspect it's worth a look at the head bolts. Does anybody know what the torque settings and tightening sequence are?

thanks
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You need an E16 torx socket.

torque settings stages:
1) 60Nm
2) 80Nm
3) 90deg turn

try and loosen to just below 1) and you can start from there.

Looking at the engine with the cam chain to the left, this is the order:

8 4 1 5 9

7 3 2 6 10

HTH Anthony
 

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Just remember you will need a new cam cover gasket..[/b]
Only if the old one now leaks
. I didn't bother when I recently did my head (again) but then the cam cover gasket was only a couple of years old. A much older one might well be pretty hard.

David.
 

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Sounds like good advice to me. I've looked at the wife's motor and it seems that to get at the head bolts, I need to take out the DI unit and then the cover to get at the head bolts. Is this right? - I'm more used to Land Rover engineering so wanted to check. The Saab seems to soldier on without any problems unlike British engineering!
 

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Sounds like good advice to me. I've looked at the wife's motor and it seems that to get at the head bolts, I need to take out the DI unit and then the cover to get at the head bolts. Is this right? - I'm more used to Land Rover engineering so wanted to check. The Saab seems to soldier on without any problems unlike British engineering![/b]
Yes,
1) Remove the DI Cassette (remember to keep it upright) - T30 Torx Bolts x 4
2) Remove PCV Tube / bung from the rear left of the cam cover
3) Remove the Cam Cover - T40 Torx Bolts x {lots} - If its not been removed since the car was built - you may need to give it a gentle nudle with a rubber mallet or something
4) Using the Order above release the headbolts (E16 Bolts)to just below stage 1 or the above Torque Setting
5) Following the order above - torque all head bolts to stage 1 torque
6) Following the order above - torque all head bolts to stage 2 torque
7) Following the order above - tighten all head bolts 90 degrees
8) Clean off Head rim where cam cover meats the head
9) Peal out old gasket from cam cover and wipe clean cam cover rim
10) Apply small drops of instant gasket (must be oxygen sensor safe) to the cam cover rim to hold the new gasket in place
11) Lay cam cover gasket in the cam
12) Offer the Cam cover to the Head
13) Tighten up T40 Bolts on cam cover
14) Plug back in PCV pipe / gromet
15) Re-attach DI
16) HAVE FUN!
 

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Some important considerations..:

Make sure you know how many times the head stretch-bolts have been used/retorqued - especially if the head has been removed for repair work in the past. Saab specify they may be used three times only. Any more and they can snap off when re-torqued!!


There is some good/detailed information in the much earlier Saabscene thread on head re-torquing, located here..

http://www.saabscene.com/forum/index.php?s...;hl=head+gasket

It seems a number of current contributors have done a "slacken off bolts + full re-torque", including the final 1/4 turn, on a used gasket with 100k+ miles on engine without reported problem
- but personally I would be very reluctant to do this on an old gasket. If a worn/aged gasket is overcompressed, then it looses it's springyness, and would be much more likely to leak sooner.

I provided the Townsend (USA Saab) links in the earlier thread (ref above hyperink) which remarkably includes instructions for a 're-torque'. However the Townsend official re-torque info only specifies doing the 1/4 turn (stage 3) onto top a 60Nm torque (stage 2)... as opposed to doing it on the new gasket stage 2 setting of 80Nm.

Incidentally, I did a re-torque on my 9000 2L head approx 2 years and 20k miles ago, using a max torque of 100Nm (in 10Nm stages) - and no 1/4 turn. (NB: It is estimated that the stage 2, 80Nm torque + 1/4 turn takes the torque up to approx 120Nm). I chose the 100Nm because I decided not to loosen head bolts first, hence it was the only way to bring torque up to a much more uniform level across all head bolts. As reported on this thread, it was the exhaust side head bolts which were slackest - due to the extra heat (plus inlet side is cooled by inlet air!). Hence a re-torque will re-distribute torque evenly across the cylinder head, which also helps extend the life of the head gasket - before the eventual failure of the gasket due to longevity and aging - as well as helping to delay/remedy any oil leak. Mark B has excellent knowledge of stretch bolts, and approved this method (see earlier thread linked).


Hope this is of further help..
 

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I would, but then I biassed by the fact that I need to do it. Anyway, it could save an expensive engine repair it not doing leads to wrecking the engine
 

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You need an E16 torx socket.

torque settings stages:
1) 60Nm
2) 80Nm
3) 90deg turn

try and loosen to just below 1) and you can start from there.

Looking at the engine with the cam chain to the left, this is the order:

8 4 1 5 9

7 3 2 6 10

HTH Anthony[/b]
I bottled out on the 90 degree turn on mine....as I tried it I could feel the spring in the bolt and the thread didn't feel like it was turning....feared shearing a bolt and decided that the fact that stage 2 had taken up a fair bit of slack had to better than it was when I started
 

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This may seem a daft question, but how do you use and angular torque gauge?

I've got one with a rotating dial and an L-shaped bar (reaction arm) which screws in behind the main dial. How are you supposed to get an accurate measurement of the angle. Does the bar lodge against something and then you can rotate the bolt against this or am I missing something?

thanks chaps
Peter
 

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I have one that I don't think is usable because you put the square of the socket through it but then what?

90 degrees on the head isn't hard to do though, just put the socket on which will typically have a 2 foot bar on it, note where the bar projects, pick somewhere in the engine bay that's 90 degrees (we can all do a pretty good job of finding 90 degrees yes?) round and then just pull until the socket bar is at that new point.

David.
 

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Another CAUTIONARY Update...:

OOoooopssSS..: My headgasket has just started to leak on cylinder 1, with 160k miles on the engine!!


- Tale-tale signs: Bit lumpy occassionally on start up, and end of spark plug No1 is no longer brown colour - like the rest - but black with white deposits)

As I did the retorque (described previously) exactly 3 years , and approx 15k miles, ago, it is hard to tell if the retorque extended the life for another 3 years or actually contributed to an early demise!?


As a result, my caution against doing a final 90 degree turn on a high milage engine/headgasket still holds. Retrospectively I would only go to 80Nm, instead of the 90Nm applied - (done in abscence of the 90degree turn, and because most of the inlet side headbolts had not all started turning, whilst the exhaust side had started turning from between 70 and 80Nm).

Additionally, it may have been better if I had not simply torqued up (albeit in 10Nm stages), but followed the standard procedure of backing off one bolt + re-torque, at a time.

Sounds like others who have done re-torque after this manner have not had a problem since..?
 
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