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Discussion Starter #1
I'm after 1" sway bars as supplied by SAS USA, anyone know of any other suppliers, hopefully UK based, and any experiences with them if so.

Obviously after tighter handling, have replaced most rubber with poly, but still need less roll. Have Abbott springs too.

Cheers for any help advice

93 9000 Aero
 

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There was a place in the UK called Harvey Bailey Engineering, they manufacture their own rill bars. Don't know any contact details bit a quick search find 'em.
 

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Welcome to Saabscene, merekat. The first thing I'd say is that roll isn't all bad. In fact, balancing front and rear roll is a good way to tune the car's handling. Since anti-roll bars combat roll by pulling the inside wheel up during cornering, they actually tend to reduce grip a bit.

I'm still using the standard Aero anti-roll bars, but I have been able to judge the effect of stiffening them by fitting poly anti-roll bar bushes. Stiffening the rear made the car turn in much better and generally made it feel more "chuckable" and precise. Doing the front, however, brought back the understeer and I hated it. After stiffening both ends, there appeared to be no difference in cornering ability from standard, although roll was somewhat reduced. I've put standard rubber bushes back on the front anti-roll bar. I have even been advised (by Ed Abbott) to remove the front anti-roll bar for track days.

Anyway, you say you have Abbott springs. Which dampers are you using with them? I have reduced roll by quite a bit by fitting the Koni dampers and turning them up quite a bit. The ride is harsher, but people report that this happens with the SAS bars too because they remove most of the independence from the suspension. Then again, even with a softer setting, roll was reduced and the ride was actually *more* comfortable than the standard Aero ride, without all that crashing about over uneven surfaces. To be honest, I wouldn't consider stiffer anti-roll bars before fitting good dampers.

Just my tuppence-worth, but you need to consider whether stiffer anti-roll bars are what you actually need. If so, the only ones I know availble from the UK are the Speedparts ones Mowgli mentioned. Speedparts products are available through Elkparts in the UK. Other than that, I think your only option would be to have the SAS bars shipped from the US. Oh, and there's the Abbott rear anti-roll bar, but I don't know much about that and have been told it may not be much different from the standard Aero rear anti-roll bar.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Bill, Mowgli, and iwantaviggen,

Many thanks for your replies. Searched Elkparts, under speedparts but only found 9-5 roll bars, guess they don’t make them now, will keep searching.

Very interesting experimenting Bill, I’ve read about and heard from Abbott about the rear being the main roll bar on 9000’s and even some older models too. Their rear bar is in essence an Aero one, at 19mm. I did ask Giles Fairweather if it was uprated in any way, i.e. different metal structure but no!

My plan was to try the SAS rear bar first to feel the difference with handling, or roll effect. In fact my interest has been to remove any rubber compliance from the rear, as the front (ARB) is fully poly bushed, the rear you can only buy the sleeve that fits around the bar. I’ve added poly to the upper mount on the rear hangers, with full success, and am at present looking into replacing the ARB ends with poly instead of Saab std rubber. Have you gone this far? I’d be interested to try going back to rubber on the front, maybe the ARB ends to begin with, as they had the greatest effect.

I’m rumoured to have Abbot springs, they were purchased second hand through the Saab owners club. I’ve had them for about 5 years now, and my wife and I both like the firm ride. Did change back to originals for a while to get the Abbot ones powder coated, awful ride, rolled around far too much.

On the subject of dampers I still have the originals on, with 182,000 mile son them. For our roads they feel fine, no over bouncing, they control the springs well, and hold the car level at speed. A friend of mine has koni’s on a 95 2.0 lpt and has all sorts of problems, getting the settings right to start with. I’m problem speaking out of my knowledge area, but dampers control the springs, primarily, but obviously control the roll too, as they are springs in their own right but just opposing the roll of the car. So I would expect dampers to stop a car rolling, but control the roll’s return and undulations during rough surfaces, hence I haven’t gone down that route. Prove me wrong please, I’m keen to learn more.

Assuming you may have already read Qausies site but below is his thoughts after fitting SAS bars…

Be advised that the SAS bars will make oversteer (the tendency of the tail to swing out) available. They'll reduce body lean and, hence, they'll reduce the total amount of understeer (the tendency of the front end to plow straight ahead). The limit of traction in corners will be more subtle - generally it will still initially show up as understeer, but it will be very close to neutral. If you drop completely off the throttle in the midst of a serious turn, you could get into trouble with the rear end swinging out (oversteer). That is to say, the limit doesn't show up as any particular sort of steering anomaly, it shows up more as a cornering limit. This is a very good thing, but ultimately, precision has its price. Which is to say, if you drive to the limit of a corner with these bars, you need to manage the throttle carefully - if you just let up in the middle of a corner at the limit of traction, you might lose it. If you drive these bars to the limit, you'll have to let off the throttle just enough to transfer just enough weight from the front wheels to the rear, and then you'll need to be aware enough to manage that transfer. The SAS sway bars don't make handling the car easier - they make handling the car more precise - big difference! If you want easy, stay with the stock sway bars. If you want near neutral handling, and the ultimate cornering and precise management that neutral handling demands, then the SAS bars are for you.
 

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Interesting, merekat. I had read Quasi's report on the SAS bars on Saabnet just after he fitted them, but hadn't seen that article on his site. While I wouldn't agree that the neutral handling is due to lack of roll, the SAS setup has clearly biased his car away from understeer. That sounds similar to how my car handles. I've even had to replace a wing after letting off the throttle at the wrong place on the Anglesey circuit. I think the characteristics on the limit are not peculiar to the SAS setup but are more to do with removing compliance from the suspension. I see that sort of handling on my own Aero compared with my unmodified CSE, which is much easier to drive on the limit because it gives a lot more warning before something bad happens.

I didn't mean to sound negative earlier...

Personally, I think I'd still uprate the dampers before going for extreme anti-roll bars. The Konis aren't hard to set up but they do seem to "bed in" a bit, so that they soften a bit over the first few thousand miles. I needed to turn mine up a bit after that, which smoothed the ride a lot. My advice to anyone fitting them would be to give them one full turn and live with them being too firm for a while. Alternatively, the Bilstein sport dampers get good recommendations here.

Anyway, we've rather got off the point, which is my fault. Assuming you know what you want (and I'm sure you do), your best bet might be to import them from the US. I've done this recently with other parts and many suppliers seem reasonably happy to ship internationally. Shipping for those items will almost certainly not be cheap, though. Best to go to the SAS website to see whether they have distributors in the UK or Europe, or whether they are prepared to ship direct.
 

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Basically, increasing the roll stiffness of an axle by connecting the two wheels with a (stiffer) bar will decrease the amount of lateral grip available on that axle. Therefore, on a FWD car I would soften the front bar before stiffening the rear.
The higher amount of body roll can be compensated for by uprated springs and dampers. I would not try to remove all body roll anyways, as you're removing a bit of the 'feel' near the adhesion limit, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for your replies again. Very interesting and informative

I think I'll start a new thred though, as my original question ahs been answered, and I'd like to discuss handling more, and a new subject shold attract other users.

Cheers
 

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I've just had a look at the SAS site as they are about the only people who make a rear anti roll bar for a 99 & there is a comment under the 1" bar for the 9000 that they don't recommend it !
 

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Whoa - why do you want to carry a product that you specifically state of thet you DON'T recommend it? I mean, I could understand if it said 'NOT recommended for...' or 'NOT recommended unless...'. Instead it just says NOT recommended period. Weird.

It this something like saying 'don't touch that red button' and assume people will be so intrigued that they cannot help themselves but do it anyways?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
As a comment if you look at the SAS site they list 2 sway bars, one a kit of the front and rear the other is the rear only, and yes they do state 'not recommneded'on the rear only, weird!

As you say Eric, it's tempting why????
 

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Perhaps because its so effective that it makes the car close to being an oversteer 'monster' where even a slight lift will have the rear breaking away?

Nick.
 

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Yeah, but then why bother to offer it on sale, if you specifically say you DON'T recommend it without exception? Hardly sounds like regular business practice to me...
 

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Hello!

In the past SASAB only had the kit of front and rear swaybars to the 9000. And in their instructions the recomendation was to use both of them. But they have probably had requests from people of bying only the rear swaybar. The car will probably be very oversteerd with only the rear.

I have had these swaybars on the 9000Aero -96, in combination with H&R springs, Bilstein dampers & powerflex/superflex bushings, i had earlier. The response of the steering in the car increases and it is possible to attac corners in higher speeds. The car also felt more neutral. So i can recomend them. When i bougt them last year they didn´t had any european supplier. They had no problem shipping them to Sweden.

// Fredrik
 

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Originally posted by black&whitesaab:
[qb]I've just had a look at the SAS site as they are about the only people who make a rear anti roll bar for a 99 & there is a comment under the 1" bar for the 9000 that they don't recommend it ! [/qb][/b]
Saab make a rear roll bar that fits the 99. They fitted them to c900 T16's as standard. I think you have to have the later rear axle (79-) though - so you should be ok.

I got mine from that H reg I broke, and it's off for powder coating now. I got standard bushes for £5 each from Western Saab (Edinburgh) on special offer Malbrad/Powerflex do poly bushes for them.
 

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I totally agree frav! Finally the handling of the car is what the engine needs - the only thing I miss now is better brakes...
 
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