[timjhoward]

Hi all, this is my first post here as I am not yet a Saab owner. I have just ordered the following car:

93 1.9Tid (150Bhp) Vector Sport - 6 Speed Auto with Paddles
Nocturne Blue with Full Parchment Leather
Sports Chassis
6 Disc Dash mount CD Changer
ES2 -13 Speaker Upgrade
Convenience Pack Plus
Bi-Xenon Headlamps

I currently have a Seat Leon Cupra which I have been really pleased with but due to my company opting for an all diesel fleet I decided that if I was to have to sacrifice 'some' performance I would go for the more luxurious option of a Saab this time round.

My question is that I have read a lot about tuning boxes, and in particualr the ease at which they fit to a JTD engine. Can anyone suggest what kind of performance gain I would get through fitting one and indeed if anyone makes one for this engine yet? (I have found some for the older revisions of the engine in 105Bhp and 130Bhp form).

Alternatively is there any other discreet ways to increase the performance, I guess you will probably say 'go for the manual' but to be honest I am fed up of driving through the ever increasing traffic hold ups on and off the clutch, and ok maybe I am getting a bit old!!!

Any advice greatly appreciated!

 

[imelville]

I'm not going to any technical help to you, but a warm welcome to the Saab ownership experience. I actually drove a 2.2TD version of the 9-3ss last week while my car was being serviced. I think the new 1.9 you have ordered will be an improvement on this, so you will be starting off with an excellent car.
I'm sure too that about 14 other folk will be along with technical answers for you before the day is out.

 

[StanleyB]

Welcome to SSc Tim

.

  I decided that if I was to have to sacrifice 'some' performance  [/b]

I don't know how the Seat compares in performance to the SAAB you just ordered, but somehow I suspect that in time you may come to wonder where exactly that sacrifice is hiding .
Nice specs you ordered there by the way . Lucky for some .

 

[timjhoward]

Thanks for the warm welcome!

Well the SEAT is a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing, on paper not amazing but it keeps with cars that should waste it! I will be sorry to see it go but coming up 3 years old and 73000 miles I think it is time!

Anyway I am hoping the new diesel isn't sluggish, in the Alfa it certainly doesn't seem to be. Anyway that was my reason for loading it with extras so I could forget about my 'boy racer' past and grow up a bit (I am 28 now!)and relax in relative luxury!

CAn't wait to particiapte on here more often, but need to get my car first really, am hoping to have it during early December!! yay!

 

[StanleyB]

 Anyway that was my reason for loading it with extras so I could forget about my 'boy racer' past and grow up a bit (I am 28 now!)  [/b]

Every man is own medicine, but without wanting to fall foul of a chatty thread: I am 46 and not the odd one out age wise

. You may well find that quite a few SAAB drivers are in their 30's and beyound, with performance machines that would put those boy racers to shame. Don't be fooled by that oldiesh looking SAAB bloke with his cap and pipe. Especially if you are driving a BM at the time.

 

[billj]

Originally posted by StanleyB:
[qb]Especially if you are driving a BM at the time. [/qb][/b]

Or the Scooby WRX that TFatC held off up a long hill in his 99T. "Big" bloke, unshaven (after a long, arduous Saab meet ), probably window open and a cig hanging out of his mouth, in a car that was likely older than the driver of the Scoob and cost about 2% of what the Scoob cost.

Priceless Saab moment - just a pity we didn't get the video camera out in time. We had to be content with cheering him on as we followed

Yes, a Saab can be a real sleeper. Especially if the badge includes a "D".

 

[sgould]

The 1.9 diesel is new to most people here, but "Flying Scotsman" has a tuning box on his older 9-3. He's written of his experiences with it on that car.

Have a search of the board (button top right of page) on "tuning box" .

 

[shv]

I am shure there will soon be Tuning options avaible for the new Tid engines as there are already several tuners offering upgrades for the same engine in Alfa Romeo and Fiat form!

Check these guys out:

http://www.hoermann-motorsport.de

 

[timjhoward]

Originally posted by StanleyB:
[qb] You may well find that quite a few SAAB drivers are in their 30's and beyound, with performance machines that would put those boy racers to shame. [/qb][/b]

Without wanting to turn this into a 'chat' myself I was not suggesting that all SAAB models were pipe and slippers, far from it, I recall a particular embarrassing moment in my old 205 GTI being left standing by the likes of a 9000 Carlsson! But I am expecting my 1.9TiD 9-3 to be a bit more tame than my current 180BHP Cupra which manages the 0-60 sprint in 7.7 (though we all know that in real road situation this stands for very little) but it has impressed me many times when keeping with Imprezza WRX's, BMW 330's and the like, so much so when I test drove a WRX a month ago I told the dealer it was boring! I did get to drive a WR1 as a result but that is another story!

If I was allowed to have a petrol car on our company scheme I would certainly have gone for the Aero as I am still very much a pertol head but that decision was made for me! Whilst being new to this board I dare say there is some rivalry between yourselves and BMW's, there certainly was on the SEAT board I visit? I have to say my Dad's 530d Sport is an amazing car and has plenty of power and torque by the bucket load which is what has persuaded me that diesel can't be all bad, and indeed that Auto boxes with Sentronic/Steptronic controls are not as boring to drive as I once thought.

Anyway at fear of filling up the boards webspace with my 'off-topic' babble I will wrap up here! I just didn't want to offend anyone by my previous post being mis-read. I know that many a SAAB is a force to be reckoned with, I cannot wait to take delivery of mine, and I am sure I won't be disapointed.

 

[timjhoward]

Originally posted by Søren Hviid:
[qb]I am shure there will soon be Tuning options avaible for the new Tid engines as there are already several tuners offering upgrades for the same engine in Alfa Romeo and Fiat form!

Check these guys out:

 http://www.hoermann-motorsport.de  [/qb][/b]

Many thanks for the link.

It looks like there is an option for this engine which may work. Although I have read that SAAB have remapped the control of the turbo to respond similarly to their petrol turbo cars, I guess this means that I would have to wait for a SAAB specific box. I dare say by the time I take delivery of my car in December something will be available. I will keep my eye on that website

 

[shv]

I would keep a close eye at Hirsch as they are the only ones with a TüV approved diselupgrade for the old 93!

I think they would be first with a proper disel chip, and their chiptuning will not upset the SAAB warrenty either!

 

[philip hs]

As a matter of fact, I know Hirsch are working on a tuning kit for the JTD.

Yours,

Philip

 

[markcanderson]

Well having just had a brand new diesel fuel pump fitted to my current 2001 TiD 9-3.. I wouldn't recommend anyone fitting any box to those... I'm about 4500 euro poorer because of it's failure.

Today, I test drove the new 9-3 1.9 TiD (150HP). Last week I drove the Opel Vectra with the same 1.9 CDTi engine.. and the week before the Vectra with the 3.0 V6 CDTi engine.

The new 1.9 TiD 9-3 is less noisy than the old 2.2 TiD... but not by much. There is also a surprising amount of vibration too.. considering it's supposed to be a new generation common rail unit.

My impression of the engine is that it's better insulated in the Vectra than in the Saab. It's also no comparison to the 3.0litre v6 unit. The V6 CDTi (TiD) has the 1.9CDTi (TiD) beaten in every area - it's quieter, it's smoother, it sounds better, it has more torque and more power and it's not particularly less fuel efficient.

The 1.9 does pull well in the Saab, but the driving experience isn't sufficiantly enhanced over the old 2.2. Saab markets the car as a 'sport diesel'. No, it's not.. it's just a Saab with a diesel engine. Over here the the price starts at 40K Euro for a 1.9 TiD 150 in vector trim, that makes it the second most expensive car in the 9-3 range. Identically spec'd to the same trim as the Opel Vectra GTS Elegance, the Opel in 3.0 V6 Diesel configuration is more than 6 thousand euro cheaper than the 1.9 4cyl in the Saab.

My order of preference is.

1) Opel Vectra GTS Elegance 3.0 CDTi V6 175HP/370NM)
2) Opel Vectra GTS Elegance 1.9 CDTi 150HP/320NM)
3) Saab 9-3 1.9 TiD 150hp/320NM).

All cars have the same excellent 6 speed box and the driving dynamics of the Vectra in diesel GTS trim eclipse the Vector with standard chassis to my taste.

I'd say that the 1.9 TiD is a marketing exercise rather than an engineering exercise and not now on my current car's replacement list, I think the Opel is the better engineered choice from a diesel perspective.

(I'm probably gonna get shot down in flames for that.. but hey.. I've only had a Saab diesel for 3.5 years and 4 other petrol Saabs..)

 

[john]

Originally posted by FlyingScotsman:
[qb]I'd say that the 1.9 TiD is a marketing exercise rather than an engineering exercise and...  I think the Opel is the better engineered choice from a diesel perspective.

(I'm probably gonna get shot down in flames for that.. but hey.. I've only had a Saab diesel for 3.5 years and 4 other petrol Saabs..) [/qb][/b]

If the reasoning is objective and rational then no reason why anyone should get shot down.

Personally, I am warming to the new Vectra. I agree with you that the Saab is more of a marketing exercise than an engineering exercise. It is my view that GM has been "marketing" Saab rather than "engineering" Saab for the last five years or so.

SAHR was the last innovation to speak of and the concept cars were ultimately worthless when GM decided to just rebadge and reheat other models from their portfolio. Furthermore, the Vectra appears to have a couple of nice touches that one might expect to have come first on the "prestige European brand" in GM's product portfolio.

 

[aeropilot]

Originally posted by /john:
[qb]It is my view that GM has been "marketing" Saab rather than "engineering" Saab for the last five years or so.  
[/qb][/b]

Or rather GM hasn't been marketing Saab.

What it should be doing is marketing Saab's engineering, rather than that 'Move your mind' rubbish......but then again as it hasn't actually allowed Saab to do much engineering, I suppose there isn't much to market.....

 

[john]

What I mean can be demonstrated by the following example.

With the classic 900 convertible GM900 and 9-3 convertibles, the roof could not be raised or lowered unless the vehicle was stationary and, IIRC, the handbrake was on. Saab marketing told us that this was a safety feature - you should not have the distraction of raising lowering the roof whilst moving.

Now we have the Saab 9-3 Sports Convertible where the roof can be raised and lowered at speeds of up to N mph. Saab marketing now tells us that this is a good thing because you can raise the hood in traffic or some other such nonsense.

Saab marketing directly contradicts itself at times.

 

[potto]

I'm not a fan of the old 2.2 TiD, I find the vibrations you feel at idle too annoying, but oddly I don't mind the noise as it is a nice grunty engine.

The main thing I can see about the 1.9, apart from quite a lot more torque in 150PS guise, is the slightly improved economy and much lower emissions, which keeps company car tax low in the UK (dunno about elsewhere).

Not driven one yet, but as posted elsewhere I followed one the other day and it seemed on a par with mine for performance (9-5 3.0 TiD, 176 bhp/350NM).

I've recently tried various other diesel engines while hunting for Mrs Fliptop's new car, I can definitely say that none of the 4-pots have been particularly smooth or quiet, unlike my V6. I couldn't persuade her to go diesel for that reason, coupled with the fact that most of them are overly-high geared and this blunts the performance for a driver who rarely goes over 30000 rpm. We bought a 1.6 petrol and it suits her better.

I do very much like the idea of the 6-sp auto. No auto is the biggest problem with the Saab V6 diesel. I do want to try the 1.9 JTD when I change the 9-5 (only 11 months to go!!), to see if I could live with the 4-pot characteristics and the 9-3ss cabin, but I'm not convinced just yet. Likewise the Mundaneo ST TDCi appeals but I suspect similar issues.

Hope you enjoy the car when it comes. I'm sure you'll find it a step up from the Seat, and as torque is what counts in the real world, I am certain you will find it no slower once you adjust to "diesel mode" and remember you don't have to rev it's ar5e off all the time!

 

[PHudson]

Originally posted by Fliptop (V4man):
[qb]this blunts the performance for a driver who rarely goes over 30000 rpm.  We bought a 1.6 petrol and it suits her betyet.

[snip]

remember you don't have to rev it's ar5e off all the time! [/qb][/b]

Yeah, staying below 30K rpm is just fine

 

[potto]

Doh! Over eager with the zeros again. Bit like the last contract I asked a client to sign