93 convertible burning oil - help!

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Thread: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

  1. #1
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    93 convertible burning oil - help!

    I'm in the UK and I've joined to try and help my partner who has a 2009 93 1.8T petrol convertible, 17,000 miles.

    She took it to have an annual oil and filter change (before actual service due) and had an air filter fitted too. All done at Kwik Fit.
    After driving away, there was blue smoke. Peridically, whilst cruising the engine would "choke" like engine-braking, but a change down
    and dab on the accelerator kicked it back, but with a big cloud of blue smoke. Over 120 miles, it used 1.5 litres of oil. The oil that remained was
    sooty black.

    It went back to Kwik fit. They "found no leaks or problems, couldn't identify oil burning" (it didn't at tickover!). They changed the oil, but for the same type, apparently, and washed their hands of it. The same problems carried on, and after complaining again, Kwik fit said take it to a specialist
    for diagnosis.

    Prior to going to Kwik Fit the car had never used any oil and it stayed pretty clean. I know because I checked it regularly.

    The car went to a specialist. They changed the oil for a "GM" oil and identified that Kwik Fit had used a diesel air filter instead of a petrol air filter.

    We thought this was the answer. Can fitting a diesel air filter into a petrol car cause a problem? They both look similar except that the diesel version has an additional sponge layer stuck to the paper base?


    I paid for the new oil and filter replacement and drove away. After a few miles, exactly the same problem returned. Periodicaly, it seems to run
    ok, goes through the gears smoothly up to 5000revs, 80mph but then it feels choked, pulls back, and, after accelerator, emits a big cloud of blue smoke.


    Its back with the specialist, but he seems stuck and is talking about (expensive) failed turbo's and cracked rings. Surely this cannot be just a coincidence? The car has been fine for 2 years right up to the day it went to Kwik Fit. Can an oil/filter, plus air filter change do this kind of damage?

    She's now bitterly disappointed with what was previously her pride and joy, and upset about the potential massive bill. Can anyone help?

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  3. #2

    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    Hi and welcome

    It wasn't doing this prior to the service? Definately???

    Possibly something has ben disconnected, a breather or vaccum pipe, possibly damaged. check the pipework from the intercooler back and check the airbox pipework is ok and tight and fitted properly.

    What you are describing sounds like a turbo failure but difficult to diagnose without seeing it.

    If it was fine prior to going into Krap Fit then sounds like they caused your problem.

    could be the wrong grade or type of oil used, could be the oil filter failed or was sub standard, could be they ran it without oil in it although this usually causes the engine bearings to go first.

    If the wrong type of air cleaner then it could cause hesitation or rich running, possibly bore wash (too much unburned fuel cleans off the oil from the piston, rings and bore and wears quickly) but this is usually over time, not instant.

    Find a local specialist and get them to have a look. TBH i wouldn't drive it until then.

    We do not stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing.

  4. #3
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    Thanks for getting back so quick. No, prior to service there was no problem we were aware of.
    I'm not technically proficient enough to do much, and its with a local specialist now. He said he'd had a look at the turbo and it looked ok, besides, at 17k miles, he didnt expect a problem there.
    It seems that I cant blame KF for putting in the wrong filter as it has made no difference to the problem, but I just cant think what else they could have done to cause the problem.

  5. #4
    Administrator kez's Avatar
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    Hi welcome to SS
    first thing the air filter would not be an issue.
    what is the millage of the car
    regarding the oil, do you know what oil was used......grade, petrol or diesel or the newer multi purpose oil suitable for both petrol and diesel ?
    how many miles did you do before the problem occurred ?
    oil that is suitable for diesel engines only have an higher level of cleaning agents that is not suitable for petrol engines as it removes some of the sludge/carbon build up and if you used for a prolonged time can remove too much from around various components which do help with sealing these, thus causing oil to leak past to where it is not supposed to be..............if this makes sense although this should not happen after only a few miles especially on a modern car unless quite high millage. Diesel oil is used by certain people as a flushing agent
    the thing is if this was what caused the issue, it means you have got to prove it which could be difficult now especially since you have had the correct grade of oil used by the specialist..........like you say it does seem strange for this to happen shortly after having the car serviced by them rather than coincidence
    now for the bit you don't want to hear Kwik Fit is for tyres
    keep us posted on the outcome

  6. #5
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    The car is almost on 18k miles.
    I dont know what oil was used initially by KF. I've asked them to come back to me with a full report and log.
    They havent, yet. However, there is GM oil in the car now, so this should solve the problem of
    mistakenly using diesel oil, shouldn't it? And I cant prove anything unless KF choose to be
    honest, now, anyway.

    The problem occurred pretty soon after collecting the car. She collected it, and said she'd seen blue smoke behind,
    when accelerating onto a motorway, less than 10 miles from KF. In fact, probably the first time she had taken it
    over 2000revs.


    I know KF is for tyres. And exhusts. She had a tyre fitted the same visit. Its just that its near to her work, she can walk and collect it, and it was a reasonble price.Until now .

  7. #6

    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    Quote Originally Posted by keithali View Post
    Thanks for getting back so quick. No, prior to service there was no problem we were aware of.
    I'm not technically proficient enough to do much, and its with a local specialist now. He said he'd had a look at the turbo and it looked ok, besides, at 17k miles, he didnt expect a problem there.
    It seems that I cant blame KF for putting in the wrong filter as it has made no difference to the problem, but I just cant think what else they could have done to cause the problem.
    The problem and subsequent damage ( if there is any) could have been caused by Krap Fit when they did the work they where contracted to by you. Problem will be proving this of course.

    Kez mentions an important point re cleaners in Diesel oil and non compatibility with your car. If the muppets at Krap Fit put a diesel air cleaner on the car they could have fitted a diesel oil filter and more importantly diesel oil.


    burning a litre and a half of oil in 120 miles is really bad news! and needs sorting asap. get the garage to check your intercooler isnt full of oil, the pipework is clean and also not damaged - same for the intercooler.

    Oil can only get into the combustion cycle in a few ways on a petrol car -
    Past the pistons and rings - bore wear, cracked/broken rings and/or damaged piston(s)
    Past the valve stem oil seals - visually gradual and never heard of an engine consuming oil like thi s with this fault, also usually much worse on start up.

    In via the intake/fuel system - on turbocharged cars this is usually the turbo bearings failing and the oil getting past the oil seals and being drawn into the engine. the bearings are pressure fed from the oil pump/system. this can and does happen slowly or suddenly but of you are saying the car has done 17k miles then it shouldn't have happened without oil starvation to the turbo shaft/bearings.

    Wrong grade of oil getting past the rings.

    wrong grade/type causing problems as Kez mentions.

    firstly the condition of the intake from the turbo back to the intercooler need checking as i mentioned to rule this out but you do need to know if your intercooler is full of oil. this will help id the problem.



    Hope this helps.

    PM me if you want to chat further.

    We do not stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing.

  8. #7
    Administrator kez's Avatar
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    first of all you need to gather as much info as you can re what they did incorrect air filter etc, write a strong letter to kf head office CAB trading standards will help, you may need to get an independent assessment carried out to the actual damage if kf are going to come ass holes but bear in mind this will cost.

    at 18k miles there should be no or very limited engine wear and tbh suspect kf to be at fault

    as the zohan says if you would like to chat further then don't hesitate to contact us

  9. #8
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    Thanks. Really appreciate it all. Its ongoing so I'll let you know what happens!

  10. #9

    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    You know, it sounds to me like someone has over filled the oil, run the car, had it go pop, & had the mistake pointed out to them & then emptyed the overfill/evidence ...... Find out what is actually wrong with it...... Turbo's can be repaired..... Piston rings can be replaced without removing the engine also, none of this has to be excessively expensive. Where in Nth wales are ya ? ...... I'm in West Lancs, so its not really a biggie for me to nip over if required. If pushed i'd probably be looking at the Turbo. The irritation here is turbo's have this nasty trait of ruining engines if they are used when passing lubrication oil ..... Get the fault at least diagnosed, then deal with who's paying for what ....... Some proffessional legal advice should be sought at this point.

  11. #10

    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!


    Hmmmm, Makes you wonder...

    We do not stop playing because we grow old; We grow old because we stop playing.

  12. #11
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    No change. The car is with a saab specialist now and he has witnessed the intermittant "stalling" and then puff of blue smoke, but not been able to identify the cause. He's reluctant to start replacing expensive parts because its not conclusive. The turbo seems ok, as does everything else, and its only done 18k miles, so this seems reasonable. Plus, the problem is not constant like you would expect if the turbo or a ring were blown. He's in touch with someone from saab gb, so I have to wait until tomorrow.
    I'm convinced kwik fit have done something as the car was fine righ up until it went in to them.
    Could they have done something whilst working in the engine bay which could cause this? I recall a brushed aluminium pipe
    which ran in front of the air filter. This pipe had a rotary control on it. Anyone casually working on the air filter could have adjusted this. Could this have caused a problem? Anythin that may cause oil to be sucked up? A breather pipe....?

  13. #12
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    forgot to mention - the intercooler was free of oil. And because its an intermittant problem, the rings or turbo are not suspect either.

  14. #13
    Administrator kez's Avatar
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    i think this pipe your on about is an aircon pipe and the black cap will unscrew off to allow refilling of the a/c system

  15. #14
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    maybe worth a check of the breather system, also worth querying with the garage re a sticky valve

    agree with them not to just go throwing parts at it .................nice to see an honest garage if you care to name them

  16. #15
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    Re: 93 convertible burning oil - help!

    hmmm, ok, not that then! Getting desperate!
    Really just trying to associate something that KF could have done. If the car had been over filled with oil, what damage would be likely? When I first saw the blue smoke, I suspected this, but when checking, found the oil halfway down the min/max mark on the dipstick. Of course, the damage could have been done and then the overfill could have been burnt off?

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