9-3 Tid 150 - juddering/clattering
NEWS
 

  1. Welcome to Saabscene General discussion forum for Saab

    Welcome to Saabscene - a website dedicated to all things Saab.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join Saabscene today!
     
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: 9-3 Tid 150 - juddering/clattering

  1. #1
    Our 2005 9-3 150 Tid judders quite strongly when cold. It feels like someone is shaking the car and the engine sounds very rough - if it was a petrol you'd describe it as misfiring. This only occurs at low revs (below 1200rpm ish) and only when the engine is cold.

    Once it's warm it's fine and will idle happily.

    No issues with loss of power, the fuel economy doesn't seem to have dropped (circa 39mpg which, considering the daily route it has I think that's ok - on longer runs it sits around 43-45mpg).

    The fuel filter was changed a couple of months ago and that made no difference. (Tried injector and fuel line cleaner through at this time also).

    My thoughts are:

    a) EGR

    b) sticking injector (or a related injector issue).

    Any advice before I start taking bits off would be welcome. Presumably if it's the EGR I can remove it and run it without it in place to see if that makes any difference?

    Thanks in advance

  2. Remove Advertisements
    SaabScene.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Saabisti Decron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    237
    Our 2005 9-3 150 Tid judders quite strongly when cold. It feels like someone is shaking the car and the engine sounds very rough - if it was a petrol you'd describe it as misfiring. This only occurs at low revs (below 1200rpm ish) and only when the engine is cold.

    Once it's warm it's fine and will idle happily.

    No issues with loss of power, the fuel economy doesn't seem to have dropped (circa 39mpg which, considering the daily route it has I think that's ok - on longer runs it sits around 43-45mpg).

    The fuel filter was changed a couple of months ago and that made no difference. (Tried injector and fuel line cleaner through at this time also).

    My thoughts are:

    a) EGR

    b) sticking injector (or a related injector issue).

    Any advice before I start taking bits off would be welcome. Presumably if it's the EGR I can remove it and run it without it in place to see if that makes any difference?

    Thanks in advance[/b]
    Get your codes read, an injector would throw one up if consistant

    EGR is most likely - take it off and have a look, you wont run it without it, just clean it up and see how it goes

    Check your swirl flaps are working, if the bar is off you may have issues there. Your inlet manifold could look like this










  4. #3
    Sounds like egr fault but the clattering could be flywheel?

  5. #4
    Saabisti
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    North Wales, UK
    Posts
    119
    I've cleaned my EGR valve now twice this year!!!!!!!!

    Both times it was full of soot.

    I even sprayed carb cleaner into the engine block which i've never seen so choked up with soot deposits, the EGR was given a thorough clean and also sprayed down pipe, put it all back together, started it up, and left it running for 5mins on 3,000rpm and watched as black soot/clouds came out.

    It's very dissapointing to have done it Jan and having to do it again now, for a couple of weeks i've felt mine to start to splrut & stutter when cold. (I do do around 250-300 miles per week so it gets good runs)

    MOST DISSAPOINTING CAR I'VE HAD....ONCE FINANCES SORTED A BIT, GETTING SHUT & GOOD RIDDANCE TO SAAB!

    Back to Mondeo ST or Audi, never had any issues with either of them!

  6. #5
    Saabisti Decron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    237
    I've cleaned my EGR valve now twice this year!!!!!!!!

    Both times it was full of soot.

    I even sprayed carb cleaner into the engine block which i've never seen so choked up with soot deposits, the EGR was given a thorough clean and also sprayed down pipe, put it all back together, started it up, and left it running for 5mins on 3,000rpm and watched as black soot/clouds came out.[/b]
    You started it with a manifold full of carb cleaner and revved the nuts of it..... :0 The would have done it some good....

    It's very dissapointing to have done it Jan and having to do it again now, for a couple of weeks i've felt mine to start to splrut & stutter when cold. (I do do around 250-300 miles per week so it gets good runs)[/b]
    Fit the Fiat gasket. Plenty info on here.

    MOST DISSAPOINTING CAR I'VE HAD....ONCE FINANCES SORTED A BIT, GETTING SHUT & GOOD RIDDANCE TO SAAB!

    Back to Mondeo ST or Audi, never had any issues with either of them![/b]
    Yeah, because they are fantastic marques too....

    Having done many 100,000 miles in all of them, I have noticed the Saab is no worse. They are all capable of generating grief (Mondeo TDCI - injectors are a 2000 repair, Audi PD's pop turbos and unit injectors and they all eat DMF's).

    Still, your perception is a reality. Hope you find what your looking for

  7. #6
    Saab Anorak
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    9-3 2.8T Anniversary Aero Sportwagon
    Posts
    585
    I've cleaned my EGR valve now twice this year!!!!!!!!

    Both times it was full of soot.

    I even sprayed carb cleaner into the engine block which i've never seen so choked up with soot deposits, the EGR was given a thorough clean and also sprayed down pipe, put it all back together, started it up, and left it running for 5mins on 3,000rpm and watched as black soot/clouds came out.

    It's very dissapointing to have done it Jan and having to do it again now, for a couple of weeks i've felt mine to start to splrut & stutter when cold. (I do do around 250-300 miles per week so it gets good runs)

    MOST DISSAPOINTING CAR I'VE HAD....ONCE FINANCES SORTED A BIT, GETTING SHUT & GOOD RIDDANCE TO SAAB!

    Back to Mondeo ST or Audi, never had any issues with either of them![/b]
    I see that you've got a 56 plate and am making a guess that your Mondeo and Audi were maybe 00-03? If so they're unlikely to have had EGR's/DPF's etc which really started appearing on diesels from 04/05 to meet emissions requirements. All diesels sold now in Europe have this kit and all have the same issues, lurking in traffic even after a short motorway run will clog the system and it may not clear on the way home. 300miles a week is just about the level a diesel is worth it and then only if it's being driven under load long enough to clear the system, below this is petrol territory when you get away from EGR's etc.
    Changing to a low sulphur oil my help bring the soot issue down but won't eradicate it.

    The original point of this thread was rough idling when cold, something diesels are prone to. It could be EGR and seeing as 39mpg is seen as OK given the run it sounds like the car isn't getting time to clear itself. Try a half hour of spirited driving on a back road and see how it goes.

  8. #7
    Saabisti Rickl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Little Wymondley, Herts
    Posts
    208
    I seem to remember a problem with the wiring to the injectors (notably no 3 for some reason) a bit of digging found this -

    http://www.saabscene.com/forum/index.php?s...injector+wiring

    My Tid sometimes idles badly to the point of nearly stalling but not when the engine is cold. This may be related to an aborted DPF re-gen (sudden traffic jam after a fast run).

    For info my EGR was replaced (under warranty) 25000 miles ago and I have had no problems with it since, despite a predominantly 'round town' driving pattern (probably only one m/way blast a week). I have only used BP ultimate since the change (previously cheapest supermarket fuel used).

    Hope this helps
    Rick

  9. #8
    After filtering the wheat from the chaff up there (why come onto a Saab forum to rip chunks out of the marque? And is 'disappointing' really that difficult to spell?) I suspect the short runs each day are taking their toll and I do think it's the EGR coked up. I've experienced dual-mass flywheel issues on another car and the Saab has different symptoms.

    I have given it a couple of long runs, including some sustained bursts using what can be gently termed as 'full use of the car's potential', and that has done nothing to rectify the issue. The power is good, it pulls cleanly at all engine speeds (I warm it before using more than about 2300rpm)

    Armed with Haynes manual, I will take the EGR out and clean it this weekend, see what happens.

    Would I be correct in using carb cleaner then either machine oil or WD40?

    In terms of fuel, the only fuel available within 8miles of me is from a supermarket which is likely a contributing factor- any thoughts on using additives/treatments?

    Thanks for the (useful) contributions thus far.

  10. #9
    Saab Anorak
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    9-3 2.8T Anniversary Aero Sportwagon
    Posts
    585
    Tuscan,
    Take a look at this thread, it's the one I was thinking about in my last reply.
    http://www.saabscene.com/forum/index...topic=31651465

    Good thing about living in Aberdeenshire is the number of roads where potential can be explored.

  11. #10
    Saabisti
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    North Wales, UK
    Posts
    119
    My Mondeo was an 05-2005 the audi a6 V6 2.7 Diesel was 2005 - 55

  12. #11
    Update: took out the EGR on Sunday morning: it was black, thick carbon deposits, really badly coked up. I suspect this is due to supermarket diesel, short runs and not being run hard enough.

    Cleaned it (slow process, separated the solenoid unit and the valve itself and soaked them in diesel then cleaned with some carb cleaner - all using a stiff brush, then used the air line to blast the last bits of soot out and dry it all out), cleaned the the pipe below it and where it goes into the head: all thick with soot.

    The connector which goes into the EGR was bodged before I took it apart: tie-wrapped in place. On reassembly, I was not convinced it was secure.

    Fired up: less noisy, smoother idle but.... engine management light on. Tried disconnecting the EGR connector: no noticeable difference (at idle, and light revving whilst stationary). Reconnected as best possible and decided it needed run: quite vigourously and for a decent duration which, if nothing else, should have regenerated the particulate filter.

    3miles in (ish) engine management light went off. It ran fine, perhaps psychological but it felt like it wasn't picking up so well below about 1900rpm but it pulled well once on boost. Over 20miles, at a decent speed, deliberately going up and down gears, varying the revs, it averaged 39.2mpg.

    Idled fine when warm. Next day, cold start (5degrees) it idled perfectly.

    Anyone any further thoughts?

    Is the connecter easy to rewire? Should I have a look at the turbo inlet? How do I check if the swirl flaps are working as they should?

  13. #12
    Saabisti Decron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    237
    Update: took out the EGR on Sunday morning: it was black, thick carbon deposits, really badly coked up. I suspect this is due to supermarket diesel, short runs and not being run hard enough.[/b]
    No they all do it. Supermarket diesel is no different to any "branded" juice you may use. The majority of it all comes from the smae sources

    Cleaned it (slow process, separated the solenoid unit and the valve itself and soaked them in diesel then cleaned with some carb cleaner - all using a stiff brush, then used the air line to blast the last bits of soot out and dry it all out), cleaned the the pipe below it and where it goes into the head: all thick with soot.

    The connector which goes into the EGR was bodged before I took it apart: tie-wrapped in place. On reassembly, I was not convinced it was secure.

    Fired up: less noisy, smoother idle but.... engine management light on. Tried disconnecting the EGR connector: no noticeable difference (at idle, and light revving whilst stationary). Reconnected as best possible and decided it needed run: quite vigourously and for a decent duration which, if nothing else, should have regenerated the particulate filter.

    3miles in (ish) engine management light went off. It ran fine, perhaps psychological but it felt like it wasn't picking up so well below about 1900rpm but it pulled well once on boost. Over 20miles, at a decent speed, deliberately going up and down gears, varying the revs, it averaged 39.2mpg.

    Idled fine when warm. Next day, cold start (5degrees) it idled perfectly.

    Anyone any further thoughts?

    Is the connecter easy to rewire? Should I have a look at the turbo inlet? How do I check if the swirl flaps are working as they should?[/b]
    Do a search on the flaps, I mean google search, mostof the information will be on the various vauxhall sites. You really need to get the codes read to help you isolate the issue.

  14. #13
    Cool, I'll get hold of a code reader.

    With regard to supermarket diesel, I've read that it lacks the detergents found in 'branded' diesels. i.e it comes out of the same refinery but the detergent is added at point of delivery.


  15. #14
    I doubt Tesco Diesel is that same stuff you get from Shell.
    Branded diesels have different additives depending on the seller.

  16. #15
    Saabisti Decron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    237
    I doubt Tesco Diesel is that same stuff you get from Shell.
    Branded diesels have different additives depending on the seller.[/b]

    Oh it is. Same tankers will serve different garages, I have seen a Sainsbury's tanker at a shell garage and vica versa and there are quite a few discussions on various othe car forums discussing the whole issue.

    Some diesels have different additives shuch as V-Power or ultimate and these are ususally to improve the cetane rating but the boggo stuff is all just EN 590.
    When I worked in the lab for Fram filters we tested it all as part of out process and there we very few differences that the end user would notice even after 50k.

  17. Remove Advertisements
    SaabScene.com
    Advertisements
     

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. juddering
    By mickcz in forum Saab 9-3 Sport Saloon / Combi(Estate)/TurboX/AWD (2003 - on)/Convertible(2004 - on)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-05-2012, 05:28 AM
  2. saab 95 juddering
    By malky44 in forum Help, Advice, Saabs and Motoring
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-09-2011, 03:38 PM
  3. juddering at idle
    By IFMOS93 in forum Saab 9-3 Sport Saloon / Combi(Estate)/TurboX/AWD (2003 - on)/Convertible(2004 - on)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-11-2009, 07:45 AM
  4. Juddering when braking
    By chris hadfield in forum Classic Saab 9-5 (1997 - 2009)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-27-2003, 03:24 AM
  5. juddering
    By mickcz in forum Saabscene: Performance
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-31-1969, 08:00 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2