Rather than flying, me and Mrs are planning on driving ALL the way across Europe, into and down through Turkey to get the ferry across to Cyprus. I know everyone else who drives to Cyprus seems to drive to Italy or Greece and get a ferry but I have a masochistic streak (which has nothing to do with 2500 miles driving each wayand a lot to do with a satNAG I can't turn off) and want to drive all the way. I will almost certainly take our 2006MY 9-3TiD rather than the 9-5 Turbo Edition simply for better fuel economy.
Does anyone have any thoughts on taking spares and what ones?
And has anyone got advice (other than 'just get a flight') about routes, countries, hotels, either to use or to avoid?
All advice will be gratefully received.

I only drive half way. Been to Vienna and places. Off to Budapest in a month.

No idea what it's like further east.

We both drive and change drivers every hour. That way you can go a lot longer before you get tired.

Also as you get tired you may go onto "autopilot". We have a rule that it's not rude to remind the driver of which side of the road to go on, or which way around a roundabout.

We book hotels ahead using the internet. http://www.viamichelin.co.uk is good. there's a route planner and a tab for showing hotels. Most hotels have customer comments. Also use hotels.com, venere, and others. In France we use Logis de France for overnights - often they are restaurants with rooms rather than a full hotel.

As to the route. Depends on your priorities. Shortest or quietest etc. We prefer to use the French autoroutes and pay the toll because they are lightly trafficked and you can average a speed near the legal limit.

So to get to Istanbul, I would go M25 to Dover, Calais, A26 to Reims, A4 to near Strasbourg, A35 north down the Rhein, into Germany to the A5. Up to the A8 near Karlsruhe. A8 past Munich to Salzburg. Then down to Villach on the A10 and into Slovenia. After that I have no experience, but the route looks like Ljubliana, Zagreb, Belgrade, Sofiya, Istanbul.

Don't forget that there are several motorway tool systems that require the advance purchase of a "vignette". Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Slovenia at least. And you need an "Umweltpass" if you go into the centre of many German towns - a bit like the London Congestion Charge and Low Emission Zone rolled into one..

Just run the Michelin recommended route from Calais to Istanbul and I don't like it!!

It goes a slightly shorter route through Belgium & Germany, but the roads are worse - very busy. To name a few - the Brussels Ring Road, Köln ring, past Frankfurt, and the narrow 2-lane bit of the A3 autobahn past Wurzburg and Regensburg. Whenever I've driven that section I think fondly of the shorter queues on the M25 at home!

On my other route the only really slow bit at rush hour and weekends is the A8 past Stuttgart.

Thanks for that, sgould. I have looked at the options thrown up on the Michelin planner and I agree, some look better than others. In the general planning, I have already decided that I would, for instance, not stop at all in Bulgaria, Croatia, Serbia etc (am I being unnecessarily cautious, do you think?). These total only a couple of hundred miles so should be able to do that. I don't have the option of sharing the driving because Mrs won't drive abroad, at night, on motorways or at speed so I will factor in rest stops accordingly and accept that it will take a bit longer.
I have heard of a vignette but how do you get one 'in advance'? Did you mean on entry to the country and if so, where?
This is the first time I will have done this sort of trip so I'm finding the planning a bit daunting because of all the unknowns. For example, it's all very well searching for a hotel before hand but sod's law says that circumstances/traffic will muck the plan up. I think I'll have to find first, second, third choices etc to allow for variations.
I have provisionally planned on not stopping overnight until in Germany or Austria, depending on progress. Looking at one of the routes, the Austrian/Hungarian border is almost exactly 1000 miles from Calais so the second stop would be around or just beyond then.......... preferably beyond that point.
I also agree and had thought that I will stick to the fastest route/ motorways whether they are toll or not.
Am I looking at it the right way, do you think?

Make sure you have a couple of flourescent jackets too. I know they are required in France. We have learnt to hang them on the back of the front seats as they are visible then and probably avoid being tugged by the Gendarmes!

Thanks for that, Yampiedog. I usually just throw them in the back seat............... having heard some horror stories, maybe I should put the triangle, bulb kit etc on the rear parcel shelf! Then again, if the stories are at all true then I would probably get a tug for that too!

With stops for driver change and rest etc. we would not do more than 10 hours between us in a day and an overall average of no more than 100km/hr (62 mph). It's easy to think you can go faster, and maybe you can on a French toll road, but anywhere else you will struggle because the traffic is no better than in the UK.

For instance, the last time we came back from Germany it took us an hour and a quarter to get around the Brussels ring road. And the year before we were stuck in roadworks in Ghent for 2 hours.

When we are not confident of time etc. we will book into an Ibis hotel. If you book with a credit card, the room is paid for and kept. You can then turn up at any time as they have a 24 hour reception. Even if you have booked, it is normal practice in Europe to phone ahead if you are going to arrive later than 7 pm.

It's difficult for me to judge how far others will drive in a day as I'm now getting old and slow, but even when we were a bit younger in the late 1980's a 700 mile journey was enough. And we both drive regularly through the year. I do 20,000 or so a year and my wife used to do 12,000, but that has reduced a lot lately. I think a 1000 mile stage would be pushing it. Even my brother-in-law and his wife don't drive that far in a day and they are dedicated to non-stop driving to the skiing in Austria.

I think you should reckon on a stop around Regenburg/Munich, or just into Austria.

If you haven't been to Germany before, be prepared to be disappointed. The autobahns are not as good as they are made out to be. Some are still as they were built in the 1930's. Most are two lane, some with no hard shoulder, and most of the main ones have variable speed limits of around 110/120.

You can buy the "vignette" for Austria at most motorway service stations in Germany as you get near the border.

There are a lot of Turkish "guest workers" in Germany. If there are school holidays etc. you will be sharing the road from Regensburg - Passau - Linz - Graz - Maribor - Zagreb - Belgrade - Sofiya - Istanbul with a lot of heavily laden small cars full of Turkish families going back for a few days.

You should also go online and search the Saab websites (often in diplomat sales section) for a list of dealers in the countries you are passing through. Then print a list to take with you.

A couple of extra thoughts...

You could consider doing what we often do, and that is to cross the channel in the evening and stay in a hotel straight away in Calais/Boulogne/Dunkirk. Then you can have a full day driving without the hassle of the crossing. Don't forget that the continent is an hour ahead of us, so by the clock a 35min Eurotunnel crossing to France takes 1 hr 35 mins. It's better coming back though!

Speed limits in France on the toll autoroute are 230 kph, but drop to 110 kph if it's raining. On free autoroutes they are often 110 kph anyway.


Been looking at my route too and I've just found out that Google maps have hotel search and use the same links as viamichelin. tripadvisor etc. with lots of reviews from guests.

I am thinking of doing that on my next trip to Switzerland. Have you any recommendations for hotels? Thanks.

Depends on which crossing and what time.

If you go by Eurotunnel and get to the Calais area, we have stayed at "Le Grand Air" Is a Logis de France about 8 miles south of Calais on top of the hill by the TV tower, south of Guines on the road to Fiennes. A bit remote though if you want to get away in the morning.

Also stayed at the Ibis in Calais - as said before, it's a 24 open with bar snacks at any time. Gives a bit of peace of mind is the weather is bad and the boats are running late.

We often stay at Le Metropole on the Quai du Rhin in Calais near the station. they have a garage. No restaurant, but it gives us an excuse to eat at Le Channel in the centre of Calais on the quayside. Michelin star. Great wine list and a 10 minute walk from the hotel.

Also stayed at the Kyriad on the seafront - not recommended - bedroom floors sticky and the restaurant tried to serve dry bread.

If you end up in Boulogne, there's the Hamiot on the front right across from the dock. they have a small car park right behind the hotel for 5 or 6 euro a night. Late bistro which means they were open when our ferry ran four hours late and we arrived after midnight instead of being in time for supper.

When we are going down to the centre of France we can also get across after lunch and drive for a hour or so to a hotel. If you are going down the A16/A28 to Rouen, I can recommend Les Airelles in Neufchatel en Bray.

if you head down the A26 towards Reims, then the Campanile at Laon good. The food is above average for a Campanile.

The Campanile at Arras was good when we last went, but it's a bit hard to find and we haven't been there for a while.

Campanile at Beauvais was OK but the food was not up to standard. I think this one has moved to a new location since we were there.

Many thanks. Le Grand Air should be fine.



Surely a "first" for France? One of the things we really appreciate is the basket of fresh bread that is put on your table almost as soon as you sit down - mind you, we have not been since the beginning of last year and how quickly these things change!

We have often one the same type of trip, to Austria. We use an ETAP at Lille which is about 2-3 mins off the motorway, you book in advance and turn up when you like using your credit card to get in if it's late.

You can get a Slovenian vignette in Austria - in fact, I noticed today that you can get a Slovenian vignette as far away as Salzburg. You then head for Villach & Klagenfurt into Slovenia. I currently live in Austria so PM if you want any information.

We have been driving to Austria regularly before we moved here. While I generally agree with sgould's route, we generally travel to Dunkirk, then either head for Lille/Mons/Charleroi/Namur/Luxembourg/Saarbrucken/Pirmasens/Karlsruhe, then as he says, take the A8 down past Munich to Salzburg, or go round the Brussels ring road (never had many problems although it is busy), then down to Namur/Luxembourg & then as before. Beware of long stretches of the A8 mainly east of Augsburg where they are widening it to three lanes and there are endless sections restricted to 80kmh (50mph).

Petrol is cheap in Luxembourg so fill up there - don't bother going off the motorway, it's the same price everywhere - but very expensive in Germany atm, around 135 cents per litre. Off the motorway in Austria you can get super unleaded for around 118 cents per litre (but it can be up to 130), the cooking is around 110 cents. Diesel is around 98-99 per litre. Motorway vignette for Austria is 7.70 euros for 10 days, the next step up is a month (not sure how much this one is) so it might be worth getting a ten-day one for each leg.

The only spare I carry is an auxiliary drive belt, I figure anything else is going to be too difficult to fix at the side of the road! Just make sure you have good breakdown insurance and get the car thoroughly checked over before you go. If you have extra load tyres, it's technically illegal to have them repaired in Austria, you have to replace them if you get a puncture.

See my other post about hotels - the Ibis & ETAP are part of the same chain, so sgould's advice about prebooking is sound, you can turn up when you arrive even in the middle of the night, but do make sure that you carry the credit card that you booked with to enable you to check in. Alternatively, you could take a directory of such hotels & just use your card to "buy" a room when you know how far you've got that day. On the other hand, it's much nicer to stay in a "proper" gasthof in Germany and/or Austria and I can make some recommendations if you want.

Finally, don't set yourself punishing schedules & targets. Driving at high speed is clearly fun, but it can be very tiring in bad weather and heavy traffic - the Munich ring road is four lanes of totally derestricted road and you do need to keep your wits about you - imagine the M25, but with aggressive drivers travelling at 100+mph - and not just the odd one or two. Take it easy and make the trip part of the holiday by seeking out some characterful overnight stops.

Have fun and as I said, PM if you want more info on anything in particular.

Yes. Massively so.

A good mate of mine's recently moved to Croatia - and loves it. I've got another mate from Serbia - again, sounds like a great place. Bulgaria's EU now. To be honest, they're all places I'd far rather spend time in than <say> Germany/Austria/Switzerland!

Apart from that, we drove to Greece, about 10yrs ago - and took the boat from Venice to Igoumenitsa. If you've got qualms about the Balkans, that's probably a better bet for you. The route across the mountains through Greece - via Meteora - is beautiful.

All that aside, yes, I'd definitely drive it. But, once the boring near bit's out the way, I'd be staying away from the m'ways - the journey's half the fun of it. If you're just going to try and mile-munch, might as well fly. You'll see about the same amount of the countries en route.

When you come to Cyprus, remember to bring with you sun-glasses, hats.........and of course your swimsuit. :)Cheers

Perhaps Michalis could let us know why they don't let you put toilet paper into the sewerage system? I hate to think that it is because everything goes straight into the sea and paper would give the game away!!

Many thanks to sgould (again) and MikeloadsofSaabs. Lots of useful tips and ideas there. I hadn't considered going the night before to sleep overnight in France for an early start...... like the thinking.
In response to Michalis, nothing personal, but anyone who gloats about being in the sun when we are freezing vital body parts off here in the UK should do the decent thing and offer a house swap, say for about six months!

Some great stuff in there, but I think you'll be stretching it at 230kph on the French roads: slight typo, I believe that should read 130kph (around 80mph) in dry weather !!

Speaking of which, anyone know how dastardly accurate they are on nobbling you over these just a little.....we're off to Les Arcs over Easter, driving down, and I have noticed a slight judder between 70-80mph....smooths out at 85. I had them rebalanced but to no effect. Perhaps that is the winter Nokians I have, & clearly in reality I will stay well below 70mph in order to remain well within the law *cough*, but *cough* theoretically what would y'all think of someone were to easy along at just 5% over their limits ?

Oh, & as well as some good Euro motor cover, don't forget to take your license, insurance and registration (V5) documents with you !

cheers!
Mike

You will find it difficult to keep to the speed limit! About 90% of the other car drivers will be travelling well over that and many will be doing the "ton". I have rarely seen a police car on a French motorway and speed cameras are just as rare. However, depending on how our diplomatic relationship with France is at the time, they might like to pick on a GB plate, but there will be plenty to choose from.

I had heard (probably vicious rumours for us foreigners !) that the French made use of the Toll information to nobble anyone speeding as well.....ie, work out from the times through the gates what speeds you were doing on average.

Although if I am on a stretch more than 2-3 hours I would expect to take a break anyway, which would solve that......

but thanks for the advice.....I do tend *not* to speed on the continent (*cough* not that I do here, of course).....& maybe I should get a third opinion on my wheel balancing here in Leicester to try to resolve it (but I suspect it could be the winter tyres being slightly more nobbly than normal ones - it's not a massive shake, just slight !!).

cheers!

As far as Munich I have done the France - Brussels- Namur - Luxemburg - Trier - Kaiserslautern - Karlsruhe - Muenchen - that's 8/9 hours

Cheap Petrol stop at Luxemburg - it's just the right distance. Take a good map and keep an eye on the speed limits on germany...The limit is 130kph, although in derestricted stretches you are allowed to go faster but if you are involved in an accident the speed that you were travelling influences the blame apportioning i.e if somebody pulls out in front of you then you are judged to be driving dangerously, if you go faster than 130...

As SGould states - the autobahn network is not as glorious as it sounds... some of the surfaces are worn badly - lots of roadworks which REALLY hold you up.

Munich is an excellent place to stop - it really is a truly wonderful city. Salzburg is 1.5-2 hours beyong on the A8 - the A99 Munich ring road isn't such a bad road, it's quite new.

Have a great trip - I won't say take a plane for the reason that you see a LOT on the road, and miss so much when you go by air.

There seem to be a lot more speed checks on the autoroutes within 30 miles of Calais and Boulogne than there are on other sections. The gendarmes hide. They do not have to be seen. No yellow jackets etc. Just the laser gun and a forehead peering over the Armco barrier.

The French do not like paying on the autoroutes so when you get further away from the coast the roads are lightly used and speedtraps do not catch enough people to make it pay. Only seen two on the more remote autoroutes in over 20 years.

A bit late and hardly relevant - but I drove from Lincoln UK to Istanbul Turkey and back in a 7 year old Austin A35 in 1965 - quite an adventure, especially going over the GrossGlockner pass on the way home.

I could not go any further East as the insurance company would not provide any cover outside of Europe.

I also know someone who drives just about anywhere (he is afraid to fly). Last time he drove from Portugal to Croatia, and the trip went smoothly. He's is the one that drives, but he is really used to, so 10 h drive with some stops to eat and rest are ok for him.

If you have a GPS it will tell you the speed limits on the road you are in, so no worries on that I think, just turn that option on.

My friend didn't have hotel booked because he wanted to do as much km as he could, but he needed to start to look for one at about 18h00, which I think must be frustrating, so I would advice to book everything ahead.