Maybe it is my imagination, but during these dark evenings, it seems observable that a lot of cars are either going around with faulty lights or being driven with inappropriate lighting on.

I would estimate that 1 in 6 vehicles has either one dip beam failed, one tail or brake light failed, one headlight misaligned so as to dazzle (usually accompanying the failed one) or foglights on in good visibility.

I left my work one evening last week, and found myself between an Audi with a failed taillight, and a BMW with one headlight, and I would have thought that "quality" cars such as these would at least have similar bulb-failure warnings to those on the SAAB.

I followed a small 4x4 a couple of nights back, towing a wide, tall trailer with no tail lights at all, and from a distance, you could only detect it was there by the way that oncoming cars' lights vanished momentarily behind it (a bit like trying to discover extra-solar planets by the way their suns' brightness changes).

Anybody else back up my (seriously unscientific) statistical analysis, or is it just around my part of the world?

Sorry, I disagree I can't back up your figures, they seem very wrong to me. Around here it's more like 60-70% of cars have either faulty lights or are using inappropriate lighting for the time of day. I drive the 9-5 on dip beam headlights always, I use the adjuster switch to shorten the beam length during the day so not to dazzle people setting it correctly once it gets dark.

I think many people don't know how to change their bulbs on their cars, amazingly I have friends who have gone to halfords to buy bulbs and then have trouble fitting them, rather than visit their local garage and pay something like a tenner for a bulb fitted compared to halfords who want about £20 per bulb without putting it in, many of them seem shocked when I tell them that I'd sell them the bulbs for a couple of quid each. Where I work we charge £5-£10 for a bulb including fitting depending on how tricky it is to fit and which bulb it is, does that sound too costly to people on here?

I've also driven customer cars with very very bad lights, one guy had some chav bling blue lights on the car, driving it when it was dark meant I couldn't see more than 50 meters in front of the car! I did tell him but he said he thought that his bulbs were "cool" so apparently that made it all ok. I've also got another new pet hate with bulbs, people driving around with indicator bulbs that have gone white as the orange has peeled off, it's 3 points on your license per failed bulb though!

I see many people driving around with front fog lights on all the time with side lights, I assume it makes them think that they are "cool". I see many people driving at night with dip beam and front fogs on too, trying to dazzle you as you drive toward them. Many many people with a bulb out and sometimes the headlight smashed. I did even see one person driving with both headlight bulbs gone and using front fogs to compensate! I've also seen lots of people driving about with their rear fog lights on because it might have almost been a bit foggy earlier but nowhere near needing them, one old guy I followed the other week had his rear fog on when visibility was in excess of 500m after it had been a bit foggy earlier in the day (still not below 100m, no need for fog lights anyhow), no amount of flashing headlights and front fogs at him could persuade him to turn off his fog light either.

I think it's more like 60 - 70%. I really hate coming up against the front fogs on all the time idiots. And the ones that switch on the rear fogs at the slightest sign of mist. I think they should have a sign up on the motorways for some of them that says " if it's not foggy enough to slow you down from 90mph why are you using your rear fog lights ?"
Why does every car with a bulb out also have badly aligned headlights ??

Alan

Lost count of the number of cars i have followed with only the high level brake light working, and last night was followed by a marked Police Transit Connect with only one headlamp working, i was sooo temped to pull him over and tell him.

Paul

Dazzle is more likely at night than in the day - and if they're dazzling oncoming drivers, you really need to get them adjusted (properly, not on the load compensation) so they don't...

Err, sorry, but you're wrong actually. The lights on my car are adjusted 100% correctly. During the day you can still dazzle older drivers with bad eyesight (whether they should be driving or not is not down to me) if the lights are setup for night usage. As if it is gloomy and your car is coming over a hill and an older driver with bad eyesight is on the way up the close range glare can cause them visibility problems and take them a couple of seconds to recover from.

Then they won't dazzle oncoming drivers.

And the likelihood of dazzle IS worse at night, as the eye adjusts for lower ambient light levels, giving a greater contrast to headlights.

I dont agree with day time lights on cars, if everyone was to do the same the benifit would be cancelled out in my opinion, i think it should be reserved for the most vulnerable vehicles ie motor bikes (by the way i dont ride a bike so no bias there)

Paul

IN Italy when they changed to day running lights they reduced the number of fatal car accidents by something like 35%..............

Anyway I agree about poor lights. I got pulled over with an on the spot fine a year ago for a rear light bulb out which for some reason didn't come up on SID. I argued the toss and pointed out other cars going by with headlights out and why are they not stopping them and by the way your car has sidelight out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Red face transport police then got his spares out and replaced it. I did the same but they wouldn't cancel fine as already issued. I pursued it as I took a photo of both cars - haha - got thrown out and they got a telling off by magistrates..................

The worst nightmare is how many cars have you seen come out of service stations at night with no lights on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've seen about 5 in last week.

They come on at the first two spots of rain, and go off at the next service.

What I don't understand is why it is mandatory to have a tell tale light on the dash for rear fog lamps but not front- especially as the fog lamp switch is in many cases partially or wholly obscured by the steering wheel. I would have thought that if such a light were fitted then it would significantly reduce the cases of people forgetting they were on.

What makes you think they'd notice the warning lamp for the front fogs, when they don't see the warning lamp for the rears?

(on the other hand, my previous Mitsubishi Galant did have warning lights for both ends.)

...And after over 4 years and 60,000 miles, I still have trouble remembering which switch is which on my 9-5...

Most of them know the front fogs are on. They don't know / care that it is illegal to use them all the time.
This is from 9 yrs ago, shows things havn't changed.

Daft motorists who use their fog lights in clear conditions in Coventry are facing a fine in a clampdown by traffic police.

Officers based at Fletchamstead Highway police station say that the blinding lights are being misused, and it is proving dangerous to other drivers.

A £30 fine will be imposed on drivers who break the law by going around with their fog lights on.

"We believe that some motorists, especially young ones, are confused about their front fog lights and their use.

"The legislation states they are only to be used in conditions where visibility is serious impaired – generally when you cannot see for more than 100 metres (328 feet).

Alan

I never said it wasn't worse at night but that doesn't change that you can dazzle people during the day or night even with 100% correctly adjusted lights. I'm sorry if you've never experienced this but it is entirely possible and does happen and there is *nothing* that anyone can do about it, hence why during the day I reduce the likelihood of it happening, obviously at night you wouldn't do this as it would be rather dangerous.

So why dip 'em in the day, but raise 'em at night?



I'd tend towards the definition of "100% correctly adjusted" tending to include "not dazzling oncoming drivers"

Because the % of cars that I see with front fogs on is MUCH higher than those with rear fogs. And, without being too stereotypical, most of these driver/car combinations certainly don't look the sort that think another pair of lights adds another 5hp...


So would I.

Police should have standard issue toffee hammers and non removable little blue stickers. When someone is stopped for having their front/rear foglights on when they shouldn't be, the police put a sticker on. If they stop someone with a sticker on already, the toffee hammer comes out and the foglight is destroyed.

Another real danger is "parking" with headlights on. I think people do this so that they are visible, but of course all it does is make any pedestrians totally invisible. Doing it on the wrong side of the road is lethal on country roads as the oncoming drivers instinct is to aim to the left of the headlights. I think the highway code still says it is illegal to have headlights on a stopped car, it's never enforced.

The instant penalty would be for the police to take the driver to a place where the light are not going to inconvenience anyone and make them stay there, engine off, lights on, until the battery goes flat/melts. "Off you go sir, have a nice night ..... problem starting, oh dear .... well, I'll be on my way"

Mark E -

Richard_C -

(Mark - you've got admin access - this thread is starting to look as if it should be merged with this thread - http://www.saabscene.com/forum/index.php?s...;#entry31729633 )




Any Ed Reardon fans out there?

To reduce the chance of accidentally dazzling someone like in the circumstance of them approaching up a hill towards you with your lights shining down on them.


Well, all lights can dazzle no mater how they are adjusted unless they are turned off. The whole point is that when they are adjusted correctly it is to *reduce* dazzle but you can never eliminate it 100%, like anything it's reducing risk.

Also, why don't more cars have a tell tale for the front fog lights? I know that I've had mine left on before by an MOT station in the 9-5 and not noticed until it got dark as the button is in an (incredibly) silly position. On at least one of my old Xantias the front fog lights were controlled by a switch on the lighting stalk and there was also a tell tale on the dash which made it far more practical to use when driving down country lanes at night when fog lights were not necessary as it was clear but just to keep an eye out for deer/fox/whatever.

Agree re the switch position.

By definiton you should only be switching them on in poor visibiltiy, the last thing you need to do in those circumstances is to have to grope around trying to find the front fog light switch, to then not have an indicator...................... not well thought out for a company that often claims that it majors on safety and ergonomics.

A previous Mondeo of mine had a fog lamp switch incorporated into the main headlight switch so as you turned the headlights off the foglight(s) turned off and stayed off until selected again.

Why do foglights (or high intensity lights for those wishing to be accurate) not both operate from the one switch?

Hi All,

A few years down here in sunny Somerset the Western Gazette ran a front page article with picture completely in support of some poor victimised driver who has been prosecuted for driving with his front fogs on. All the usual stuff came out, picking on the motorist, should be tackling real crime etc etc. I completely support the Police though and would love them to adopt the Coventry approach.

My view is that when considered as a whole ie speeding, parking, lighting, jumping lights, due care and attention, condition and use etc, the motorist is probably guilty of more petty (and in some cases not so petty) crime than any other section of society.

FTF

On a Skoda you can only have front fogs on if the high intensity rears are on.
Or is it the other way around? I'll have to have a go in the Memsahib's motor. Either way, it's the same switch.

Edited to say: it's a modern Octavia (ie superior Golf) not a real Skoda.

It's usually fronts-then-both. Annoys the living wotnot out of me.

I think if a zero tolerance was adopted by the Police it would lead to all round better driving generally. It may take more resources initially but think of the positive effects.

For example clamping down on:

Illegal number plates.
Illegal use of fog lights.
Stupid blue washer nozzles.
Illegal tinted windscreens.
Loud exhausts.
Neon running lights.
Stupid bass boxes.
Queing across box junctions.
Jumping red lights.
General bad driving like cutting in at traffic lights & roadworks, bad lane discipline and generally driving like an ass (or Beemer driver)

I'm tempted to say wearing a baseball cap too but that may be going a little too far

When you look at the insurance implications of even adding a simple stripe to you car most of the younger generation probably have invalid insurance due to their modifications of plastic skirts etc.

It would also get a lot of cars off the road, ease congestion and give public transport.

Just call me Meldrew

I agree Victor! and FTF on 'due care and attention'.

Just last week there was an awful accident on dual carriageway near Norwich involving a police car. Everyone jumped to conclusion car was in chase or something but no.....

A car had broken down in slow lane and the police car was parked to warn other motorists. 2.30 clear weather in afternoon. He had bollards out, chevrons, hazards on, blue and red flashing lights - incredibly highly visible and yet a car doing 70+ hit it!!!

The police officer had just got into his car to make a call and had put his seat belt on (apparantly they are told to do this always even if doing some paperwork- lesson to us all while stationary) and the car hit him!!!!! He was cut out with possible neck probs but after chacking was ok and now getting over it. it would have been totally diffferent story with no belt on or just a few seconds earlier getting into the car!

What about the driver of car you may ask. He and his passenger are critical in hospital and police are looking into him having been on mobile phone which they found in wreckage!!!!!!!!!!!!! Due care and attention and yet people still seen with phones to ears even on shoulder whilst driving through fast traffic.

Look out also for those with hands clasped as if in prayer on the top of the steering wheel - sometimes just a lazy way of driving, but often there's a phone text session under way. Also those continually looking down at their lap, with one hand on the wheel - the other hand's sending a text. Or those who swap the phone between ears (they could do it literally) so they can change gear whilst going round a roundabout.

I need some fresh air. Off to wash the car.

Can you wash mine for me Geoff?

I'm on the same box as you about mobiles...................

A young lady living not 100 yds from got annoyed when I asked her why she drove her Focus around all the time with side lights and fog lights on. Her response was "she liked the way the Volvo's stayed on all the time and for my information they are not fog lights they are driving lights. Thats what the man at the garage told her so there" Told me didn't it!!! Not worth argueing anymore. The other point is how many people don't use indicators anymore. Here on Anglesey I'm sure they all attended the School of telepathic motoring?

Rant over

Let me join in

I do get fed up with the fog lights brigade - I've ranted enough about them before and I don't think it's a case of it being impossible to change the bulbs - it's just that some of the drivers don't care

I like the idea of the toffee hammer

Let me introduce the one section of the motoring community who would....

if I was in charge of th Ministry of Motoring Justice

sentence to death

It's the sanctimonious mongrels in their MPVs with the obligatory 'Baby on Board' thingy and the bicycle rack minus the number plate and light rack. You have all surely seen it, pious and self-smug mumsy and dadsy and their precious 2.4 brats in the back of the Scenic playing with their DVDs. Bikes on the back just to show how green and 'responsible' they are You could just sense the ooze of smugness radiating from Dad 'Hey, I'm fertile', yet...

the bikes obscure the rear window and the REAR LIGHTS

Keep taking the tablets, WW!

I agree about the vast number of cars with lights out, also enforcing a few of the basic traffic laws would uncover a load of other issues.

Top annoying motoring habbits...

1. Driving using handheld mobile phone
2. Cutting in at a traffic queue
3. Stupid loud bass that must make the ears bleed
4. Throwing litter out - including fag ends
5. Fog lights on during good visibility
6. Queueing across junctions / roundabouts etc blocking everyone else
7. Not using indicators*
8. HGV's overtaking another HGV that is going 1 mph slower than them
9. Kids climbing about in the back not fastened in
10. Tailgating when its obvious you cant go any faster cause of traffic


* Except BMW's because the indicators clearly dont work in any model they have ever supplied and they own the roads anyway so everybody else should be getting out of their way.

We also have same idiotts driving down here in Australia with fog lights on for no reason. Had a spate of time 3 yrs ago all the new cars would drive around with with fogs on as I think they thought it was cool. But Government pasted a law that you can only use them in fog conditions or you will get fined. I also have a 4x4 Landrover Defender with nice driving lights on and a quick flash with those babys certanly gives those fog light idiotts some of there own back.

Foglights to be coin operated with 50p slot on dashboard, money collected for the public purse and used to fill in potholes. 20mph limits and no parking near schools, and school crossing patrols to be armed. All mobile phones to be fitted with a small explosive charge that can be triggered remotely by poilce officers if seen against a driver's ear: messy, but no paperwork to worry about. Minimum speed limits on A & B roads outside towns, not maximums, and don't salt the roads, ever. A winter of carnage followed by no more traffic jams.

Sorted.

The other day I felt like a right idiot, I watched as a BMW changed lane correctly and was indicating to leave via the exit on which I was going to enter the roundabout. I obviously stopped as I thought that the driver must have knocked the stalk by accident and slowed up the traffic for a few seconds. Unless it was a co-incidence that the driver had knocked the stalk while trying to send a text message I guess?

>>The other point is how many people don't use indicators anymore. Here on Anglesey I'm sure they all attended the School of telepathic motoring?


Agree entirely and not sure where I have heard or its authenticity, but I am under the impression that there is a message out there somewhere in the land of driving schools or the highway code saying that you don't have to signal if its not necessary. Anyway signalling in general is appalling round here, especially at roundabouts where so many either don't signal at all or signalling right on exit. (Now that latter point is an area of debate I bet!!)

All the best.
FTF

You signal when it would usefully indicate your intention to other traffic. If there's no trafffic that would benefit from this information, don't signal. Correct roundabout procedure is to signal left just after the exit prior to your desired exit.

Has anyone looked at how much front fog lights actually put out? I came over a local hill road the other night in 15metre visbility (2 white lines and 1 gap) and as I was sure that there was no other traffic I flipped from dipped to fogs and sides to see how much the fogs put out, the visibility reduced. On dipped alone I could see 15m and with fogs on as well I could see 15m so no gain. In the interests of science I took my car (Aero Sportwagon with bi-Xenon's) onto a bit of straight private tarmac, with dips on only the unlit area between the front of the car an the lit area was 4m (12feet) nearly half of this was the area obscured by the bonnet. Putting on the fogs did fill in the unlit area but not much more so the advantage is that if a fox or pheasant runs out in the 4m in fornt you'll see it, but as this is pretty close anything over about 10mph you'll hit it anyway. Conclusion, drive on dips or mains, ignore fogs if you're relying on them you'll hit something, they look cool but are irrelevant.

Agreed, trouble is some drivers (and it seems to be increasing) don't seem to understand the 'other traffic' bit or when necessary (I know you didn't say that). I regularly stop at a R/B access (and don't think I don't know how to hit a gap) only to watch in dismay as the other driver turns off without indicating. Subject to the geometry of the R/B I know, but what rules were they following. They should have signalled. Similary following a vehicle through several right and left turns with a signal to be seen. See it regularly, every time I drive to work.

The other day I pulled out in front of a Tesco delivery van that was signally right and looking every bit as if they were continuing round the R/B, only to find them up my backside with lights flashing and horn blaring. Clearly didn't have a clue.

From post above.
>>Stupid blue washer nozzles.

Yesterday saw one of these chaved up transits (it wasn't a transit, I don't know what it was, but it was that sort of van) and virtually the whole front grill, and it was quite a large grill, was covered with blue lights. Never seen that many before.

Regards.
FTF

What about the ones at the front of the queue at traffic lights, apart from the invisible car in front of them? Lights change to green, THEN they get into gear, and the lights are turning amber again before they've got halfway across the junction, never mind the 15 cars behind them that could have gone?

Then there are the idiots of all ages who just DON'T have a clue how the right-turn filter traffic lights work.

Or the ones who can see an invisible yellow box junction - just as bad as those who can't see a visible yellow box junction.

And the ones with the satnav right in the middle of their windscreen, full brightness level at night - just like a torch shining right in their eyes.

And don't get me started on motorway lane discipline. Just don't.

For all of the people described in this thread I envisage a wall and a machine gun... Engaging brain before gear seams to be an alien concept to many.

i got pulled by the respectable old bill in the 9000 when i lost one of my headlamps, they wanted to know why i was using my fog lamps to compensate for my lack of headlight.

this was confusing because my car dont have front fog lights, the are DRIVING lights and are attached to the high beam and so in theory only come on when the high beam is lit.

i was actually pulling into a garage to buy a bulb when i got tugged so he desided not to give me a producer but we were both confused with the driving lights, all we could come up with was the car had detected a blown bulb, duly told me and then activated the driving lights as a temporary fix because they wouldnt turn off until i had switched off the ignition and back on again.

on the subject of tell tale lights on the dash, i have known a number of people who ignore ALL the warnings the dash shows up because they dont understand them and the thought process is that if THEY dont understand it, it aint important!!