The land of the blind, An Observation Options

[CitTone]

Maybe it is my imagination, but during these dark evenings, it seems observable that a lot of cars are either going around with faulty lights or being driven with inappropriate lighting on.

I would estimate that 1 in 6 vehicles has either one dip beam failed, one tail or brake light failed, one headlight misaligned so as to dazzle (usually accompanying the failed one) or foglights on in good visibility.

I left my work one evening last week, and found myself between an Audi with a failed taillight, and a BMW with one headlight, and I would have thought that "quality" cars such as these would at least have similar bulb-failure warnings to those on the SAAB.

I followed a small 4x4 a couple of nights back, towing a wide, tall trailer with no tail lights at all, and from a distance, you could only detect it was there by the way that oncoming cars' lights vanished momentarily behind it (a bit like trying to discover extra-solar planets by the way their suns' brightness changes).

Anybody else back up my (seriously unscientific) statistical analysis, or is it just around my part of the world?

[quinophex]

I would estimate that 1 in 6 vehicles has either one dip beam failed, one tail or brake light failed, one headlight misaligned so as to dazzle (usually accompanying the failed one) or foglights on in good visibility.

Sorry, I disagree I can't back up your figures, they seem very wrong to me. Around here it's more like 60-70% of cars have either faulty lights or are using inappropriate lighting for the time of day. I drive the 9-5 on dip beam headlights always, I use the adjuster switch to shorten the beam length during the day so not to dazzle people setting it correctly once it gets dark.

I think many people don't know how to change their bulbs on their cars, amazingly I have friends who have gone to halfords to buy bulbs and then have trouble fitting them, rather than visit their local garage and pay something like a tenner for a bulb fitted compared to halfords who want about £20 per bulb without putting it in, many of them seem shocked when I tell them that I'd sell them the bulbs for a couple of quid each. Where I work we charge £5-£10 for a bulb including fitting depending on how tricky it is to fit and which bulb it is, does that sound too costly to people on here?

I've also driven customer cars with very very bad lights, one guy had some chav bling blue lights on the car, driving it when it was dark meant I couldn't see more than 50 meters in front of the car! I did tell him but he said he thought that his bulbs were "cool" so apparently that made it all ok. I've also got another new pet hate with bulbs, people driving around with indicator bulbs that have gone white as the orange has peeled off, it's 3 points on your license per failed bulb though!

I see many people driving around with front fog lights on all the time with side lights, I assume it makes them think that they are "cool". I see many people driving at night with dip beam and front fogs on too, trying to dazzle you as you drive toward them. Many many people with a bulb out and sometimes the headlight smashed. I did even see one person driving with both headlight bulbs gone and using front fogs to compensate! I've also seen lots of people driving about with their rear fog lights on because it might have almost been a bit foggy earlier but nowhere near needing them, one old guy I followed the other week had his rear fog on when visibility was in excess of 500m after it had been a bit foggy earlier in the day (still not below 100m, no need for fog lights anyhow), no amount of flashing headlights and front fogs at him could persuade him to turn off his fog light either.

[Alan6]

I think it's more like 60 - 70%. I really hate coming up against the front fogs on all the time idiots. And the ones that switch on the rear fogs at the slightest sign of mist. I think they should have a sign up on the motorways for some of them that says " if it's not foggy enough to slow you down from 90mph why are you using your rear fog lights ?"
Why does every car with a bulb out also have badly aligned headlights ??

Alan

[Paul900s]

Lost count of the number of cars i have followed with only the high level brake light working, and last night was followed by a marked Police Transit Connect with only one headlamp working, i was sooo temped to pull him over and tell him.

Paul

[TooMany2cvs]

I use the adjuster switch to shorten the beam length during the day so not to dazzle people setting it correctly once it gets dark.

Dazzle is more likely at night than in the day - and if they're dazzling oncoming drivers, you really need to get them adjusted (properly, not on the load compensation) so they don't...

[quinophex]

Dazzle is more likely at night than in the day - and if they're dazzling oncoming drivers, you really need to get them adjusted (properly, not on the load compensation) so they don't...

Err, sorry, but you're wrong actually. The lights on my car are adjusted 100% correctly. During the day you can still dazzle older drivers with bad eyesight (whether they should be driving or not is not down to me) if the lights are setup for night usage. As if it is gloomy and your car is coming over a hill and an older driver with bad eyesight is on the way up the close range glare can cause them visibility problems and take them a couple of seconds to recover from.

[TooMany2cvs]

Err, sorry, but you're wrong actually. The lights on my car are adjusted 100% correctly.

Then they won't dazzle oncoming drivers.

And the likelihood of dazzle IS worse at night, as the eye adjusts for lower ambient light levels, giving a greater contrast to headlights.

[Paul900s]

I dont agree with day time lights on cars, if everyone was to do the same the benifit would be cancelled out in my opinion, i think it should be reserved for the most vulnerable vehicles ie motor bikes (by the way i dont ride a bike so no bias there)

Paul

[norfolk jim]

IN Italy when they changed to day running lights they reduced the number of fatal car accidents by something like 35%..............

Anyway I agree about poor lights. I got pulled over with an on the spot fine a year ago for a rear light bulb out which for some reason didn't come up on SID. I argued the toss and pointed out other cars going by with headlights out and why are they not stopping them and by the way your car has sidelight out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Red face transport police then got his spares out and replaced it. I did the same but they wouldn't cancel fine as already issued. I pursued it as I took a photo of both cars - haha - got thrown out and they got a telling off by magistrates..................

The worst nightmare is how many cars have you seen come out of service stations at night with no lights on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've seen about 5 in last week.

[Machpoint005]

I think it's more like 60 - 70%. I really hate coming up against the front fogs on all the time idiots. And the ones that switch on the rear fogs at the slightest sign of mist.

They come on at the first two spots of rain, and go off at the next service.

[Mark E]

What I don't understand is why it is mandatory to have a tell tale light on the dash for rear fog lamps but not front- especially as the fog lamp switch is in many cases partially or wholly obscured by the steering wheel. I would have thought that if such a light were fitted then it would significantly reduce the cases of people forgetting they were on.

[Geoff1951]

What I don't understand is why it is mandatory to have a tell tale light on the dash for rear fog lamps but not front- especially as the fog lamp switch is in many cases partially or wholly obscured by the steering wheel. I would have thought that if such a light were fitted then it would significantly reduce the cases of people forgetting they were on.

What makes you think they'd notice the warning lamp for the front fogs, when they don't see the warning lamp for the rears?

(on the other hand, my previous Mitsubishi Galant did have warning lights for both ends.)

...And after over 4 years and 60,000 miles, I still have trouble remembering which switch is which on my 9-5...

[Alan6]

Most of them know the front fogs are on. They don't know / care that it is illegal to use them all the time.
This is from 9 yrs ago, shows things havn't changed.

Daft motorists who use their fog lights in clear conditions in Coventry are facing a fine in a clampdown by traffic police.

Officers based at Fletchamstead Highway police station say that the blinding lights are being misused, and it is proving dangerous to other drivers.

A £30 fine will be imposed on drivers who break the law by going around with their fog lights on.

"We believe that some motorists, especially young ones, are confused about their front fog lights and their use.

"The legislation states they are only to be used in conditions where visibility is serious impaired – generally when you cannot see for more than 100 metres (328 feet).

Alan

[quinophex]

Then they won't dazzle oncoming drivers.

And the likelihood of dazzle IS worse at night, as the eye adjusts for lower ambient light levels, giving a greater contrast to headlights.

I never said it wasn't worse at night but that doesn't change that you can dazzle people during the day or night even with 100% correctly adjusted lights. I'm sorry if you've never experienced this but it is entirely possible and does happen and there is *nothing* that anyone can do about it, hence why during the day I reduce the likelihood of it happening, obviously at night you wouldn't do this as it would be rather dangerous.

[TooMany2cvs]

I never said it wasn't worse at night

So why dip 'em in the day, but raise 'em at night?

but that doesn't change that you can dazzle people during the day or night even with 100% correctly adjusted lights.

I'd tend towards the definition of "100% correctly adjusted" tending to include "not dazzling oncoming drivers"

[Mark E]

What makes you think they'd notice the warning lamp for the front fogs, when they don't see the warning lamp for the rears?

Because the % of cars that I see with front fogs on is MUCH higher than those with rear fogs. And, without being too stereotypical, most of these driver/car combinations certainly don't look the sort that think another pair of lights adds another 5hp...

I'd tend towards the definition of "100% correctly adjusted" tending to include "not dazzling oncoming drivers"

So would I.

[Richard_C]

Police should have standard issue toffee hammers and non removable little blue stickers. When someone is stopped for having their front/rear foglights on when they shouldn't be, the police put a sticker on. If they stop someone with a sticker on already, the toffee hammer comes out and the foglight is destroyed.

Another real danger is "parking" with headlights on. I think people do this so that they are visible, but of course all it does is make any pedestrians totally invisible. Doing it on the wrong side of the road is lethal on country roads as the oncoming drivers instinct is to aim to the left of the headlights. I think the highway code still says it is illegal to have headlights on a stopped car, it's never enforced.

The instant penalty would be for the police to take the driver to a place where the light are not going to inconvenience anyone and make them stay there, engine off, lights on, until the battery goes flat/melts. "Off you go sir, have a nice night ..... problem starting, oh dear .... well, I'll be on my way"

[Geoff1951]

Mark E -

Richard_C -

(Mark - you've got admin access - this thread is starting to look as if it should be merged with this thread - http://www.saabscene.com/forum/index.php?s...;#entry31729633 )




Any Ed Reardon fans out there?

[quinophex]

So why dip 'em in the day, but raise 'em at night?

To reduce the chance of accidentally dazzling someone like in the circumstance of them approaching up a hill towards you with your lights shining down on them.

I'd tend towards the definition of "100% correctly adjusted" tending to include "not dazzling oncoming drivers"

Well, all lights can dazzle no mater how they are adjusted unless they are turned off. The whole point is that when they are adjusted correctly it is to *reduce* dazzle but you can never eliminate it 100%, like anything it's reducing risk.

Also, why don't more cars have a tell tale for the front fog lights? I know that I've had mine left on before by an MOT station in the 9-5 and not noticed until it got dark as the button is in an (incredibly) silly position. On at least one of my old Xantias the front fog lights were controlled by a switch on the lighting stalk and there was also a tell tale on the dash which made it far more practical to use when driving down country lanes at night when fog lights were not necessary as it was clear but just to keep an eye out for deer/fox/whatever.

[DSM]

Agree re the switch position.

By definiton you should only be switching them on in poor visibiltiy, the last thing you need to do in those circumstances is to have to grope around trying to find the front fog light switch, to then not have an indicator...................... not well thought out for a company that often claims that it majors on safety and ergonomics.

A previous Mondeo of mine had a fog lamp switch incorporated into the main headlight switch so as you turned the headlights off the foglight(s) turned off and stayed off until selected again.

Why do foglights (or high intensity lights for those wishing to be accurate) not both operate from the one switch?