: Tips on getting the plastic covers off the underside...
08-03-2002, 06:31 AM
... and getting them back on again?
On both my '96 Aero and '96 CSE, the bolts that hold the plastic panels on under the front of the car are largely rusted to their captive threaded inserts, except that after a bit of turning effort, the inserts are no longer captive!
To get the LH wheel arch liner off the Aero and the RH liner off the CSE, I had to cut the very front bolt that hods three panels together. I can live without this one. However, on both cars I was unable to remove the cover under the radiator to access the drain plug. Again, no problem as I removed the hose from the water pump instead and pointed it downwards to drain the radiator.
However, I am shortly to replace the front bumper on the CSE and from what I can see, I will need to remove the front underside cover. Any tips on removing this (the bolts are only accessible from underneath) and on how to re-attach it? Are there any fixings that I can fit that won't rust up again? Are these things available from a Saab dealer?
I haven't even looked at the situation on the '95 yet, and expect it to be just as bad...
08-03-2002, 07:50 AM
These fixings are available from SAAB, at a cost! http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif but also available from reputable fixing manufacturers like 'Infast' who were based in Croydon at one time. I managed to get a whole box of these bolts/mushroom nuts which fit these plastic trays quite cheaply from them years ago....and can't find it now . also, for my old 900 T head gasket replacement, I got a set of cyl head bolts from them at a fraction of the SAAB cost! 'Infast' is still around somewhere...maybe worth a search on the net.
08-03-2002, 07:52 AM
Infast Branches all over UK:
08-03-2002, 06:57 PM
Is that what they're called: "mushroom nuts"? I don't suppose you know what the spec. is? I'm sure I can work out the spec. of the bolt but are the nuts specified for a particular thickness of material, for example?
No chance they are available with a stainless steel thread, I suppose... ?
08-03-2002, 08:41 PM
One of the electronics catalogue firms - RS or Farnell (can't remember which one) shows captive nuts in the "fasteners" section which appear to be identical to the SAAB ones. I'm tempted to get some and try nylon bolts. (The hoses on my washer bottle keep coming off so I've had the panels off [well, bent back really cos of the stuck bolts)umpteen times).
Try http://www.farnell.com - accepts credit card orders from anybody
or http://rswww.com - has "trade" counters round the country
08-04-2002, 05:45 AM
Being in the electronics industry, I'm familiar with both of these, so I'll have a look. Don't know why I didn't check them before.
For the record, I couldn't find anything like these on the ScrewFix website.
08-04-2002, 06:19 AM
Have had much the same problems on my MY93- believe me it gets worse with age!!!
The tray, however is not so bad as much of the rest of it. The main "bolts" that are to the rear of it are in actual fact self-tapping threads that screw into plastic inserts in the sub frame, so no worries there. As regards the rest of it, I've just used stainless steel self tappers with large washers to fix things back together- much easier!
If you're removing the bumper, then taking the front spoiler off may prove difficult. Amongst the bigger stuff, it's fixed by some smallish (circa M4) bolts to the bumper just above the bottom air scoop. They DO rust to buggery and very often prove difficult to get out without basically yanking the damn thing off. I managed to replace those though once exposed by chopping their rusted heads off with a stout pair of cutters.
And my tip for holding the three sections together at the front outside corners of wheel arches is cables ties- not very elegant but quiet straightforward to fix and cheap.
08-05-2002, 03:19 AM
This is one of the worst aspects of Saabs - the cheap fasteners they use on the undertrays. Derek was the amn who got the larger captive nuts (jacknuts) M8 from RS (stainless) and sent me some. I then simply fitted new bolts (dont use Saab far too expensive) with plenty of copperslip. The ones holding the front of the spoiler to the bumber on the CSE (not sure about the Aero as looking at piccies is seems to have a two piece spoiler) are M4 jacknuts.
08-05-2002, 10:38 AM
I ordered 50 M6 jacknuts today from RS, along with 100 screws and washers. I didn't order M8 as I want them all to be the same (I can simply fit stainless screws and washers to replace the ones that haven't siezed yet).
Perhaps I should have got the M4 ones for the bumper too, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. The new (second-hand) bumper doesn't appear to be missing any and there aren't any broken screws in them, so perhaps all I need are new screws.
08-05-2002, 05:11 PM
Ohhh... theese M4 f..ked me up a bit last weekend. As I went on the ramp to fasten the things there a bit after major repair (they had removed those plastics, but poorly fastened them back). And those M4 had 7mm (non-standard) heads, damn... , and I have to drive them by pliers.
08-07-2002, 07:36 AM
Well, lucky I have a 7mm socket.
Do you happen to know how long the M4 screws are? I think I'll get some in stainless and some Jacknuts, just as a matter of course. I suppose they need to be long enough to set the Jacknuts with.
08-07-2002, 07:53 AM
The M4's are approx 20-25mm including heads. You'll need one about 30mm to compress the fitting unless you can scrounge the natty tool that does it for you...
And you're right to get the nuts as well- remember you can't see whether they've rusted up and won't know until you try losening them and the whole thing turns!!
08-07-2002, 09:56 AM
Thanks, Mark. I'll get some 20mm ones (I'm pretty sure that refers to the threaded part without the head). I have a couple of longer ones to compress the nuts if necessary. The 20mm ones should be long enough to compress the short M4 Jacknut, though.
08-07-2002, 06:23 PM
Did all the M6 ones tonight. I was doing well and replaced all the screws in the wheel arch and got the undertray off complete (middle and both ends) when the heavens opened with a thunderstorm (my garage isn't big enough to have the car in it and work on it as well, and I don't have any light either). So I took the tray and worked on it, removing the old nuts and fitting new ones. I ended up poking the front of the car into the garage, but didn't have room to jack it up in there and it took quite a while, especially as it was getting dark and I had to use the headlamps.
I'm very pleased to get it done. I've never seen under that part of a 9000 without the undertray before. I'll do the other cars in the near future when I have more time.
I'll have to revisit one of them, though, as I managed to cross-thread it and it doesn't take much to break those nuts free...
I should be getting the M4 ones tomorrow, but at least now I know what I'm doing.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'd have been out an awful lot of money if I'd gone the dealer route.
For future reference, RS accept credit card payment and you don't need an account any more. The part numbers are:
288-3071 £14.40 Insert, threaded, jacknut, short, M6 (pack of 50)
527-404 £4.04 Washer, plain, stainless steel, M6 (pack of 250)
520-144 £7.22 Screw, set, hexagon head, stainless steel, M6 (pack of 100)
288-3100 £11.23 Insert, threaded, jacknut,
short, M4 (pack of 50)
527-381 £2.83 Washer, plain, stainless
steel, M4 (pack of 250)
520-037 £5.55 Screw, set, hexagon head,
stainless steel, M4 (pack of 100)
OK, I spent quite a bit, but there should be enough there for all three cars, and I do need to remove the front spoiler from the Aero to fill and paint over the "kerb-rash".
08-15-2002, 06:47 AM
Cook nuts with torch (carefully) this melts plastic roung them and panels may be removed. replace with large head/thread self tappers in new holes. - simple but effective if appearance is not a worry.
Dennis Eves (At home)
08-03-2005, 08:48 AM
Three of the bolts holding on the undertray were rusted in place, and the nuts just spin uselessly in their holes. I had a slight "chainsaw moment", and removed the undertray with the aid of a Stanley knife - large washers under the bolt head will take care of the enlarged holes in that, but not the nuts. I can see that replacing these - whether with the same or different fasteners - is easy, but: only after I get the old ones out. I can't drill them out, because they just spin uselessly etc. How on earth do I do it without doing more damage? Or don't I? OO-er - I think I can feel another chainsaw moment coming on........
08-03-2005, 09:05 AM
To be honest, I think a drill and cable-ties is one of the best solutions. I tried getting nuts and bolts, and penny washers, and then epoxying the nuts and washers to the plastic. It worked to put it all back together, but a few thousand miles later and the epoxy has all rattled apart and the fasteners seem to have corroded (could have sworn I bought stainless). I think from now one, it will be cable-ties for me.
08-03-2005, 10:38 AM
The easiest way (if there is such a thing!) is to remove the bottom tray and 2 side trays as one.
Then hold the backing nuts with a pliers, spray with wd40 and they do come off and are reusable after.
Bill - you moved? (Bedfordshire). Haven't seen your car around for a long time.
08-06-2005, 04:18 AM
Originally posted by BOF at Home:
Three of the bolts holding on the undertray were rusted in place, and the nuts just spin uselessly in their holes. [/b]Get something like a Dremmel and cut the heads off so that you can remove the tray, then you'll be able to tackle the bit left behind.
Have to say, I managed to get the tray off mine without too much aggro and then I changed all the fixings for new Jack nuts and use plenty of copper grease whenever I refit from now on. I also don't overtighten.
08-06-2005, 06:21 AM
The ones I have always had most trouble with are the ones where the side trays bolt to both the wheel arch liner and the bumper...despite replacing them and greesing them up they still sieze by hte time I wan to get them off agian, and the plastic around there eventually wore and stretched to the extent that the spread (forgot the proper name) bolts didn't fit any more. Solution?....I got a couple of rubber lugs from the scrappy, cut holes through the wheel arch liner so that I could reach through with a spanner to a nut inside, and fitted a nut, bolt and big washer....no more problems. http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif and the rubber lugs block the holes for a nice neat job.
I'm just thinking about 90-degree-bending a spanner so that I can do the same for all the other under-tray fixings now.
I've given up with these captive spread-bolt-type things now. They always sieze in the end
08-06-2005, 07:44 AM
I'm planning to visit SVC (http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/) who are based in Tamworth for the fixings for my Carlsson bodykit. I'll also need to replace many of the wheel arch liner bolts and inserts to ensure that everythings as tight as it should be. I'll let you know if they can come up with all of the goods for me.
08-06-2005, 02:16 PM
Well that got me scratching my head for a local supplier as SVC can't do fixings.
08-06-2005, 03:52 PM
Saab dealers sell the jack nuts.
08-06-2005, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by David Taylor:
Saab dealers sell the jack nuts. [/b]
Originally posted by mutungi:
These fixings are available from SAAB, at a cost! * http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif [/b]
Dennis Eves (At home)
08-06-2005, 06:38 PM
They certainly are; £1.31 each, plus VAT, and even the dealer's storeman agrees they are s***e! I bought four, ended up wrecking two but the other two did the job. I compressed them in place with a water pump pliers - I tried using the bolt but had to hold the "nut" end with pliers to stop the thing turning, and the legs bent round rather than out.
By the bye, I always use a generous dollop of "Waxoyl" on threads I want to come apart easily, and so far I've never had a Waxoyled thread seize. HTH.
08-07-2005, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by David Taylor:
Originally posted by BillJ:
[quote]Originally posted by David Taylor:
[qb] Saab dealers sell the jack nuts.
Originally posted by mutungi:
These fixings are available from SAAB, at a cost! http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif Yeah £1.28 each. Even in my world, that's not going to kill me though I accept that in the world of Duck tape and cable ties, that might be a problem!
Part number 9087040 for those that can afford them.
BTW, the right way to fix them isn't to turn them with the bolt because that puts a twisting force. Squeeze the thing in a vice or get a tool for doing it. Same type tool as you use for fixing the hollow wall anchors that are similar. I never had much success with those either where you screw in and it's supposed to pull the fixing behind but all that happens is that you end up turning the fixing in the drywall. I bought the Fast setting tool (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/searchresults.jsp;jsessionid=SMKN0BCZ0ZZ3LCJO2C1CJ 0Q?_dyncharset=UTF-8&q=&n=12429&pn=1&pd=1&pi=1&cn=1&cd=1&x=5&y=12) and am very happy now.
Dennis Eves (At home)
08-09-2005, 05:06 PM
Thank you for that, David. Water pump pliers did the job this time, but if I ever find I need to do lots of them, I'll get one of those nifty little tools.
08-21-2005, 10:40 PM
For coupling panels together can try a wall anchor the mushroom spand type, used in mounting mirrors and pictures to drywall.
Just screw tighten till mushroom expands against the panel on farside.
They come in all sizes if prefered is to long use washers to pinch the gap.