What should I pay for an 89 black 9000 Carlsson with 217K miles, well maintained but no Saab history, showing a bit of rust around the edges, please. What should I look out for?

I know just the men to ask... hang on whilst I sift through their collective thoughts on the matter...


Phil.

Sorry for the delay. Check out Parkers price guide. Remember the Carlsson isnt that much more than a turbo with lower suspension, body kit and and 10bhp more (depending on model year). If you dont do your own repair work then they can be very costly to run and parts even second hand are not cheap. Think carefully before you buy. If its done 200+ miles it will be tired unless its had plenty of money spent on new suspension, brakes, steering, turbo, head gasket, Di unit etc. I would offer something a lot lower then the asking price (like half) and see what happens.
Adrian

Will - if you still haven`t bought one, try this site for more information on what to look for: http//quasimotors.gar.net/buying.htm

A very interesting link from chrisn - here it is as a hyperlink: http://quasimotors.gar.net/default.htm
/john

I'm not sure, except a friend has just bought a real good one for £1300 (f plate 2.0 litre 204 bhp with 115K miles)

Carlssons - there were quite a few early shape 9k at the National, but only 1 CS version - mine! Does anyone out there have one as I have yet to see another after 4 years owmership ?

I don't have one, but my local non franchised dealer has sold 4 and services 3 of them still (one was an auto).
I nearly bought their first one as a replacement for my 900 Carlsson, but missed it and ended up buying the CS aero they got in 3 months later.

Offord motors had one for sale last month, 65,000 miles, £6250 1992 CS Carlsson and also a 92 900 Carlsson 115,000m £8000

Makes me think I should have never sold my 900 Carly

Saw another today in Norwich with a broken nose (broken osf headlight, indicator, and towing point

Obviously I don't have one, but I know of two in the Eastbourne area. This is probably due to a local specialist dealer selling on quite a few SAABs.

On wrighars' point above, it seems the classic 900 is now commanding 'above book' money for good late examples. Any comments?

cdcarlsson
Re: 900 above book price - I think you are right - I'm going to chuck this one into the classic 900 forum

Probably means it had been test-driven by the moderator of this forum ;-)

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wrighar said ...

Saw another today in Norwich with a broken nose (broken osf headlight, indicator, and towing point

as the proud owner of a 92 carlsson 2:3 turbo
go for one with full service history by saab
only then will you have peace of mind

they are superb cars

once you have bought one go to abbott racing
you will not be dissapointed

The last contributor made a comment about taking your Carlsson to Abbot Racing; I'm in the process of acquiring a Carlsson and understand that Abbott Racing can carry out some modifications fairly cheaply that do wonders for the handling. Has anyone any comments on this? Also, the car I've seen has a badly faded spoiler and rear boot decor panel. Presumably the spoiler can be sprayed quite easily and cheaply. Is it practical just to remove the decor panel or is it better to replace it?

Can remove decor panel (I did for about 18 months). You need a metal strip though that covers across the width of the boot (talking CD Carlsson here), it hides the numberplate lights and provides a handle.
Got a new decor panel from the Spares weekend for approx. £60.

having just bought and sold another Carlsson I was suprised in the amount of people after one I sold a 88 f reg with 178,000miles for £2.400
I didnt even advertise it..the one I bought 1990 one owner with 52.000miles on had about 6 people after it...one guy offered £500 more than the asking price without seeing it...I got it tho thanks to the petrol shortage.....for £4000.00
this is my 5th 9000 and my second Carlsson...spend a few bob @ Abbott or Trent Saab..Get it set on a rolling road..go and scare a few people.....what did someone say before just a 9000 with lowered suspension and 10 bhp more...lol.......get one and see

I was chasing that 52K mile Carlsson and offerd to buy it unseen on the morning that you went to see it; have just bought one with 77k on the clock and FSSH so I'm not too bitter! Have acquired a new panel decor for £85.00 plus vat from 2-Stroke.

Im glad you go one sorted out Finlay, what did you manage to get? this one is a good one, but has a few faults most of which are because the last few repairs haven't been sorted by a Saab man...back to the garage monday should see the last of them...I hope

this is my 5th 9000 and my second Carlsson...spend a few bob @ Abbott or Trent Saab..Get it set on a rolling road..go and scare a few people.....what did someone say before "just a 9000 with lowered suspension and 10 bhp more...lol.......get one and see".

That was me and its true, I have got one! Now if you spend a few bob (bet it was more like a £1000+) at Abbott thats different. Could spend a lot less and do it yourself though. I'll let you know after I get my water injection sorted.

I thought a standard 9000 turbo put out 175 bhp. and a 2ltr carlsson 204...I was told the gear ratios are different I think they are totally different animals...surely its more than a body kit and 10 bhp...I had a 9000se whilst I had my carlsson they were like chalk and cheese

anyway Will did you buy a Carlsson?

never mind all this about 2ltr carlssons

the real macoy is the 2.3

220 bhp throws you back into the boot when you accelerate

lol....hopefully by this time in 2 weeks I should have 240-250.......hopefully....if the wife hasn't found the secret saab account..

mpen please tell me more
what r you going to do ??

all the info please

I haven't decided yet I have talked to Abbott and Trent saab. Abbott say rechip change the wastegate capsule, dump valve and air filter will give me 35-40 bhp more @ a cost of about £780.00 trent say power boost valve, motor sport wastegate actuator, comp dump valve and filter 30-35 bhp cost about £500.00....the trouble is Abbott is a bit to far away, anybody know any good Saab Tuning people in the Preston area??or can anybody tell me any better ways to get more reliable bhp for my money??I have had an Abbott tweaked saab before it was good..but ahhhh I dont know.....the motor in this saab is low miles and strong..pulled 207 bhp on a dyno thurs and seems ok apart from running a little hot, which will be sorted monday.so any Ideas please folks..

Gordon Lamb Saab in Sheffield do Hirsch Performance for 9000. http://www.gordonlamb.co.uk/
HTH
/john

thanks John I will call them monday and see whats on offer

mpen - only first year 2.0 Carlsson was 204bhp, after that until the 2.3 Carlsson came along they were 10 bhp more than equivalent standard turbo (cat version takes 10 bhp in both standard or Carlsson spec). They achieved this with the red box DI/APC unit (under front passenger seat) and 'sports' rear exhaust box which is no longer available. Suspension is lowered slightly from standard. Guess the point I was making is the Carlsson is not that much different from a standard turbo (unlike say a Cosworth was to the rest of the Fraud range).
Anyway, I'm just outside Preston, so if you fancy comparing Carlssons over a few beers drop me a line.

The red box on CS Carlssons is not under the passenger seat, but below the plastic trim at the base of the windscreen on the passenger side...just for the record...

On this point of altering the spec whether by tuning specialists, or a change of wheels as per another post - what do your insurers have to say ? Some are pretty tetchy about a change of wheels from original fit even to another SAAB wheel, let alone a BHP change.

Chrisn,

CS Carlsson are we taking the very late CS Carlsson or the early non CD Carlsson (if this makes sense). On the CD version the DI/APC is under the passenger seat, while the LH ECU is under the plastic trim between engine compartment and bulkhead.

MPEN - its a 1990 Carlsoon 5 door, FSSH, recent new turbo fitted and seems to be a genuine car. Picked it up yesterday and had the benefit of a 150 mile up-hill down-dale drive home which got us fairly well acquainted. It's a totally different animal to the 9000 CSE 2.3 Turbo which is my other (and now the wife's) car; on the subject of altering the spec if you don't notify it to your insurers, make a claim and they pick up on it your toast. All contracts of insurance are based on utmost good faith which means full and frank disclosure of anything that would affect the risk. Beware!

Finlay is right, the term for it is "material fact" ie: anything that may affect the underwriters decision whether or not to insure a risk (or what terms to apply)

...but that is technically another thread.

/john

Adrian .a beer sounds good,I called my insurance and you guys are all right...so I guess I will have to keep driving slow..or as my broker said, Dont tell anybody and hope, I think I will leave well alone for a while. And have a think about it...Finlay sounds like you found a nice one, Do you like it better than you other one?

MPEN - both cars are quick but the Carlsson is more of a driver's car and a lot of fun so on balance I prefer the Carlsson.

If your broker is advising you not to disclose a material fact then I would advise you to consider changing your broker. This is very, *very* serious. If you have an accident you could well find yourself uninsured. Your broker is being irresponsible.

Sorry to sound so negative - but I can only recommend you disclose everything you think may be relevant and then let the underwriter decide on whether the information is relevant or not. Like I said, this is technically another thread - perhaps I should start it rather than answering here.

Otherwise, good luck ;-)

/john

Can anybody give me an idea of the cost of replacing o/s/f CV boot and drive belts?

What's going on if the car is running hot when its idling? What do I need to do to sort it or is it OK left to its own devices? Any suggestions on this and earlier posting regarding replacing drive belts and o/s/f CV boot greatly appreciated.

Finlay

As per my earlier post, my o/s/f CV boot is being replaced tomorrow, so should know costs very soon....

front boot..main dealer £80.00..local garage £45.00....hot running. my Carlsson runs hotter than the last one...since I bought this one , the one from Rochdale..I have had the system back flushed, a new thermo contact, new cooling fan switch....it still ran hot on the gauge, about 10 o clock, on monday I had a 82 degree thermostat put in, the one put in for over here was 89 I think.I also put some cooling conditioner in ,it runs lower,slightly on the gauge but still hotter than my old carlsson...so I got a digital temp probe and it was running at 69c..its not losing coolant or boiling I think from what I have seen on these bulletin boards a lot of these gauges are a bit dodgy

Adrian....you were right saab uk tech emailed me back 1989 carlsson 204 bhp
1990 195 bhp

Finlay

CV boot : Apparently, there are 2 sizes of boot, the smaller being available as a pattern part and relatively cheap at about £12. The larger one is only available as a SAAB part and is £33 + VAT - guess which mine was...At least the hub nut came off OK

the prices I gave were fitted..I am a lousy mech

Thanks to chrisn for his cost info on the CV boot; can anyone provide an indication of the cost of replacing the drive belts. I'm beginning to sound like a crumudgeon but forewarned and all that.

Had my drive belt done twice now - I think I parted with about 50 quid first time - I was in a generous mood and it needed doing immediately. Should get away for less!


Phil.

Finlay

Problem with drive belt is that is that the job escalates to replacement of the idler pulleys (2) due to bearings going, and the automatic tensioner (if fitted) due it losing its oil. Had this done 5/99 when prices were : Belt £25, tensioner £68, pulley £45 each - all + vat and labour.

I believe that its also worth checking the harmonic balancer which can separate - anyone any experience of this ? Does it produce a squeal on start up ?

chrisn, A squeal from start-up and for the next few miles under accelleration can be due to a broken exhaust manifold stud. It's usually the right-hand one, as viewed from the front. Sometimes it will still be in place but will 'wobble' when pushed about.

On the subject of Carlsson bhp.
The reason for the '90 model having 195bhp (instead of the earlier 204) is due to the use of a smaller T25 turbo. This was for the reduction of turbo lag.etc

chrisn - reference drive belt, interesting that you should mention loss of oil as I have detected this in the last couple of days and this seems a possible explanation unless someone can make a different prognosis? Sounds like the job needs sorting sooner than later. Now that the initial euphoria of wanting and buying the car is waning the warts are becoming more apparent. Seems to be quite a strong smell of petrol in the cabin and a little voice keeps repeating that buying a ten year old performance car is asking for trouble. Somebody tell me I did the right thing!

Finlay..mine had a real strong petrol smell ..I had the mech look at it monday..the sender unit on the top of the tank needed tightening down it took 10 mins and its fine....no smells at all

and by the way ..you did the right thing....its all part of the fun

mpen - thank you for the encouraging words. Obviously this is the place for stressed Saab owners to come for therapy!
I will have the garage look at the petrol problem on Monday together with the other items on the (expanding)list.

On the subject of repairs such as CV boot, drive belt etc (what I assume to be fairly minor stuff) do these need to be dealt with by Saab or Saab specialist or is it OK to get the local garage to sort these assuming they are reasonably competent.

Finlay...if your not 2 far from Preston you need to see Brian from Wheelton garage workshops...www.saabpartserv.co.uk...saab independant..very very good ...this guy has saved me a fortune over the last couple of years....he has a vast selection on used spares....the courtesy 9000 is a bit of a shed but if he likes you you might get his convertable.....this place is well worth a try....and no I am not on commission...

Finaly

If the drive belt tensioner has lost its oil then you may well be able to see this over the tensioner. The real giveaway is to switch on the aircon and watch the belt at idle. If the tensioner is duff the belt will vibrate periodically along the long run right at the top of the engine. But then if your aircon is out too.... However,you can still hear the extra vibration when starting off as the clutch bites.

Don`t panic yet-I went through this as well, but if you and your wallet can endure sorting the car its worth it in the end...

Some traces of rust visible at bottom of doors (inside); Bearing in mind the words of the great man "rust never sleeps" what's the best move to deal with this/stop it spreading?

If its' just a light surface rust (along the seam at the bottom and lower rear edge of the door, where the outer skin wraps around the inner) then this is quite normal (both of my 9000's have been like this). It appears where the mastic applied in these seams has split apart allowing ingress of water.
If the galvanised surface isn't damaged then the rust will only spread slowly. A (really)rusty Saab is a poorly repaired one (usually). However to get to the point.(Honest I will).
I have (on my last 9000) cut the mastic off with a Stanly knife,(careful not to scratch the galvanised surface) to expose the extent of the rust. Then used a rust retarding agent following the dirctions on the bottle. I've found Kurust (now by the people who make Hammerite) to be good, as it allows a topcoat to be applied after three hours.
It's very important to use plenty of the top coat (several layers) as thin layers (on edges etc) are not automatically waterproof!!! and you don't want to do the job again in two years time, do you?

The collective wisdom of this forum is awesome! From a driving perspective my greatest niggle with the Carlsson is the way the front end tends to scrabble about on hard accelaration. I'm aware that Abbott and Trent can carry out suspension upgrades etc; does anyone have any first hand experience of such modifications and are they succesful and worth the pounds?

Finlay, it is the contributors that make this forum what it is. That means thanks to everyone, including YOU! ;-)

This particular thread is the longest running to date (I think this is the 58th entry) Remember, you can always start a new thread for a new topic if it is clearer. ;-)

/john

has anybody got any good contacts in the northwest for refinishing my Carlsson wheels...and any idea on price thanks.....

When you have tried someone out let me know, I have a set that needs doing plus a set of Saab minilite type!

Not in the north ,I know but I used;
Spit 'n' Polish
12B Sovereign Way
Tonbridge
Kent
Sorry have mis-laid their telephone no.
They did a first class job for £212.
They apparently did the origional wheels for SAAB U.K. in '89. ie; The graphite centres with diamond cut rims, then laquered over.
As we all know this finish just does not last well, and yes they know this as well. They say that as this is what the customer (Saab) wanted, that is what he got. They will do you this finish again, but only a short warranty (three months I think) will be given on the laquered finish.
However, I had the centers done in graphite and the rims in silver (powder coat). This looks fine, maybe not as good as a diamond cut rim, but has the advantage of a one year warranty.

By the way they had literally hundreds of Mercedes wheels going through for the new S-class when I was there.
There turn-around is approx. three days.

£212 and your car off the road for 3 days; how much are they new?

For alloy wheel refurbs I would highly recommend A1 Wheels in Wolverhampton. They did a fantastic job of diamond cutting my 99EMS alloys, repainting the black bits and lacquering the lot. I can dig their number out if anyone is interested.

To reply to Finlays' point.
The turnaround time usually includes posting each way, if you can get an overnight courier service. The price I quoted was just for the job, as I took the alloys to them and picked them up.
They can do a same day service if you take the car to them and leave it with them ALL day, but it HAS to be booked in approx three weeks ahead.
On the point about the price. Yes, it isn't cheap, but who said quality was. Also I believe Saab sell the alloys for around £250 each. They are Ronal alloys, one of the best makes around and definatly not a cheapo make.

Yep Julian dig out the number please. How much do they charge. For my minilite style I was thinking of getting them bead blasted and then painting/lacquering them myself.

I was thinking of having a go at beadblasting the wheels on my Aero and repainting them myself. Again one of the many advantages of belonging to the Kodak car club, they have a bead blaster and a full size spray shop !

Has anybody else had a go at doing it themselves ? If so what were the results like ?

Also how do you find out what the correct paint colour is ?

Thanks - Simon.

had 2 keep this one going...finlay...clutch going on this one...lol we must be mad....why do we keep spending money on these cars??........is this instead of a mistress???

mpen - a mistress would be cheaper and more fun!

For a shoprt time maybe, but a mistress would sure become expensive. ;-)

Near side part of the boot compartment, nearest the near side quarter, is a bit wet and squelchy. I know its raining cats and dogs permanently but even so! Any suggestions?

Yep, got the same problem myself.
Anyone got a fix for it?

To cdcarlsson - got a fix yet?

Near side part of the boot compartment, nearest the near side quarter, is a bit wet
and squelchy. I know its raining cats and dogs permanently but even so! Any suggestions?

Yes. Check the drain from the electric aerial. There should be a plastic tube on the bottom of the motor unit draining to a hole in the underside behind the rear wheel.

Thanks to Derek. I'll check it out.