Afternoon all. Does anyone please have the part numbers for the Brembo Group N Brakes for the 9000 Aero(both Front and Rear). I have looked at previous discussion topics and they don't seem to be listed.

Many thanks

Front discs (pair): Brembo 09.5221.10
Rear discs (pair): Brembo 08.5037.10

If you're thinking of fitting the Ferodo DS2500 pads, then:

Front: Ferodo FCP256H (axle set)
Rear: Ferodo FCP296H (axle set)

Note that the front pads require a small amount of grinding (about 1mm or so) at the top and bottom edges of the backplate to make them fit the 9000 calipers.

Thanks very much Bill.

Front discs (pair): Brembo 09.5221.10
Rear discs (pair): Brembo 08.5037.10[/b]I've just ordered 2 of each of these this afternoon, they should be in tomorrow. They are to replace my warped and rusted mintex discs.

Brembo 09.5221.10 £34+v each
Brembo 08.5037.10 £16+v each

coming to £100 +vat.

They are trying to track down some DS2500's for me too, but they are not popular or stocked very much in Norfolk.

Andrew

I've just found the receipt for the last set of disks in Nov 98.

they were:-
Mintex front at £35+v
Brembo rear at £16+v

So I saved £2+v over the last set

Andrew

Hi all

Sorry to butt in on this discusion ... but ...

Does the Aero have bigger disc's than the CSE model?

And are these Brembo disc's from Saab or direct from Brembo?

The reason I ask is because I am about to replace my discs soon and was going to get the group N discs from Trent Saab, but these Brembo's are a lot cheaper.

Can some one advise ?

Many thanks


Damo

DaMoB,

The 9000 Aero's have the same size brakes, it's the 9-5 Aero's that have bigger brakes than the standard 9-5's.

The Discs I've bought should be the HC version (high carbon), and very grey.

I'm sure Billj will be along soon.

Andrew

Originally posted by Scaero owner:
They are trying to track down some DS2500's for me too, but they are not popular or stocked very much in Norfolk.

Andrew [/b]Andrew,

My local supplier does mail order for a wide range of stuff incl the Ferodo pads...

Circuit Supplies (UK) Ltd
Unit 22, Harmill Industrial Estate, Grovebury Road, Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, LU7 8FF.
Tel: (01525) 385888
Fax: (01525) 385898
E-mail: info@circuitsupplies.com

Thanks Andrew,

Where did you get them from?

I’ve been trying to get hold of the "Proper" Brembo grey iron discs for a while now, I suspect that the Trent Saab ones are using these as blanks and machining the groves themselves.
The guys at German & Swedish don't seem to be able to understand the difference between std disc's and grey iron ones ! as they keep quoting me for the std replacement discs.

BTW I was in very good motorsport supplies shop yesterday in somerset,and the chap there was telling me to get the new DS3000 pads as they are much much better than the DS2500.
So I had a look on Ferodo's web site - and the DS3000's have a 0.62 coefficient of friction, That is massive !! The only thing is the ferodo site says "Not for road use" I can only assume this is because of the wear factor as I was told they are a lot softer on the disc's.
Interestingly the DS2500 are not on Ferodo's list at all, so it's a possibility that they are being discontinued?

Any one else heard of the these DS3000?


Damo

I run them on Saabine - yes, braking power is massive, they squeal on application (though not as bad as some other compounds out there) and it sure looks like they wear out the discs really quick. Reputedly they also shed hot metal particles all over your wheels as they (and the disc) get really hot on the track - haven't noticed that after the odd emergency braking I had to perform up until now. My wheels haven't suffere so far, but I take a towel to the fronts at least after a drive to remove brake dust.

For Saabine, they're perfect - I bet even a set of massive AP/Brembo front calipers/discs couldn't touch the set up I have now using standard (late) 9000 discs an calipers on a c900. But the performance comes at a price - on a daily car, I would sooner use the DS2500.

I can find no specific reference on the Brembo site for group N discs, and the say that they use grey iron for better grip[/stability and HC (high carbon) content which I hope will help reduce rusting.

find these 2 links

front 09.5221.10 (http://catalogo.brembo.it/eng/catalogue/disc_detail.asp?catalogue=eu&brand=SAAB&model=9000&front=&rear=&code=&diameter=&th=&minth=&a=&b=&c=&from=disc%5Fsearch%5Fmodel%2Easp&id=11219)

rear 08.5037.10 (http://catalogo.brembo.it/eng/catalogue/disc_detail.asp?catalogue=eu&brand=SAAB&model=9000&front=&rear=&code=&diameter=&th=&minth=&a=&b=&c=&from=disc%5Fsearch%5Fmodel%2Easp&id=11222)

Andrew

Thanks All for the info.

Ill be looking into those today (monday)

BTW did you see the BremboMax disc's on the same page - no info as far as what type of material they are - i.e. Grey iron or HC - but do look nice tho

Thanks Again


Damo

The DS3000 is a non-gassing compound and works best on a plain-surfaced (i.e. no grooves) disc; don't know about the DS2500's but I'd wager to say that the same goes for them as Mark got un-grooved discs as part of the Trent Saab Stage 2 package, with his DS2500's.

Originally posted by DaMoB:
I suspect that the Trent Saab ones are using these as blanks and machining the groves themselves.[/b]Trent supply the discs "as-is" from Brembo. They have no grooves or holes.

According to Trent DS2500 is also non-gassing...

Andrew, where did you get your discs from and do they supply mail order? I'm in need of a new set at the back http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I agree, slots are only really usefull for track days if you really do get them hot.

Billj on trent saab's site under tuning products it says:
(quote from page)

Group N
Grey Iron discs
These discs are exclusive to Trent Saab and are constituted from pure grey cast iron. They are far more stable at high temperature and will endure the stresses of sudden heat cycling without the cracking often associated with cheaper mass-produced units. Both faces of the disc have 8 evenly spaced machined grooves.

Damo

You're right, DaMoB. However they do seem to ship plain discs unless what I and others have isn't what they describe as "Group N". Interesting...

The new disks, unfortunatly the company does not do mail order.


If the pads can be got this week then the weekend will be busy again.

http://www.ashill.org/saab/disks.jpg

Andrew

You're right, DaMoB. However they do seem to ship plain discs unless what I and others have isn't what they describe as "Group N". Interesting... *[/b]I think the 'grooved' description on the Trent site was appropriate back when they carried Pagid pads and the grooves actually served a purpose (presumably). The only thing they changed after they went to Ferodo pads was swap the word 'Ferodo' for 'Pagid' everywhere where the latter was mentioned on the site...

Just popped down to Circuit Supplies for some rear DS2500s and found them most pleasant to deal with. They're the main distributor in the UK for Ferodo racing pads and they keep both pads in stock (I had been expecting to have to order them).

They quote £53-odd + VAT for the rears, although I got a discount for collecting them rather than having them delivered. They opened up an AP brake kit to show me what it consists of and gave me a run-down on the various pad materials, including showing me a pad where the heat-insulating layer between the friction material and the backing plate was visible. The DS3000 are not recomended for the road, although apparently they will withstand a high enough temperature without fade to melt the surface of a brake disc on a Renault Clio. http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

The drawbacks of DS3000 are that braking performance is less progressive than the DS2500, they need a bit more heat to start to bite and they eat discs (braking with DS3000 "looks like a catherine wheel", apparently). For smaller cars (like the aforementioned Clio) they find that lap times are actually faster with DS2500 than DS3000. I asked whether the 1.5 tonnes would be heavy enough to warrant the use of DS3000, but they didn't think so if it were to be used on the road as well.

Just rung circuit supplies, they were the cheapest I could find AND included carraige in the cost!

ordered
2 sets of fcp256h front at £69.79+v = £82.00 each and
2 sets of fcp296h rears at £53.81+v = £63.22 each

next cheapest was bgdevelopments who quoted the same price but then wanted to add carriage.

trent saab wanted 96.70+v and 89.97+v a set!!

cheapest I found was 99 euro for the front set but would then come from germany + postage and taxes etc.

Circuit supplies were very friendly and the chap remembered me from yesterday (he had 4 sets in) and was taking about euro reg r90 and how DS2500 are now not legal as the are to good (euro reg allows +-15% from original pads.

Also gave me a lecture on brake fluid and it's hydroscopic properties.

Andrew

Well it looks like that's a load of beers owed to me then- from you lot for the cheap suppliers, and the suppliers for the extra business...

Well my presents arrived today while I was out.

Picked them up this evening and have had them out to caress.

They look good and abreasive. I like the metal flecks embeded in them, maybe my disk will not rust out from under me now.

As an aside, the Carly's from disks are well worn now (big lip in the outer edge, so these should finish them off, but the rear disks have rusted up over the outer 50%! very surprising since it does 60 miles a day minimum.

Another weekend under the car coming up

Andrew

Well thay are fitted.

The fronys took about 40 minutes each, the rears about 50 minutes each.

The front were not problem except getting the little torx 40 screw out of one of the disks.

The rears on the other hand were a sod.

Even after windiong the piston all the way in there was not enough clearance to fit the new pads.

I tried a gentle g clamping of the piston but it would not move, so I had to sand about 1mm off all 4 pads.

I've now been for a quick test drive and bedding in run and all are OK except the OSR which has blue'd the inner hub edge (I only went 4 miles and there didn't feel like any dragging and the wheel was turning when I dig the wheel bolts up.

I've jacked the car back up and taken the wheel off, and the wheel seems freer that it was before so rather than sand more pad back I think I;ll di a few short runs and keep an eye on it. I don't want to cook the disk or bearing.

Other that that Oh Boy are they better! than 2 warped disks with cooked pads and 2 rusted disks with 1mm of pad.

Picture to come in an hour or so.

Andrew

A mix of old and new pics, plus my nephew halping out - you can't start them to early

Been out for another run now and everything is wonderful except the ABS comes in a bit quickly now even in the dry.

http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake1.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake2.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake3.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake4.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake5.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake6.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake7.jpg

http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake8.jpg http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake9.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake10.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake11.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake12.jpg

http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake8.jpg http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake9.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake10.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake11.jpg
http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake12.jpg

Those sorry looking rear discs from the Aero have just had a little lick on a lathe and now look like this

http://www.ashill.org/saab/brake13.jpg

I think that is good enough to go on the back of the carlsson this weekend.

Andrew

Are they still OK for thickness now they've been skimmed, Andrew?

The rear discs were looking positively new compared to the ones on the back of my CD, thats before you skimmed them!! I have to admit that they're probably an MOT failure as they stand.

How long did it take you to remove the old and fit the new? I could seriously do with saving a few bob and do a DIY job. I'm just a bit worried I'll feck it up.

Mark,

The disks are now down to 8.2mm after skimming (min is 7.5), so they should be good for one set of ds2500 pads. Run out on them is about 1.5 thou, just enough to release the brakes but not enough to shake.

Jason,

The were shot. the disks went rusty I think because the pads wore out, athough I couln't hear it, 2 were metal to metal.

Andrew

Originally posted by Scaero owner:
Mark,

The disks are now down to 8.2mm after skimming (min is 7.5), so they should be good for one set of ds2500 pads. Run out on them is about 1.5 thou, just enough to release the brakes but not enough to shake.

Jason,

The were shot. the disks went rusty I think because the pads wore out, athough I couln't hear it, 2 were metal to metal.

Andrew [/b]I've checked my rear pads, there's plenty of meat on them but they're just not cutting through the corrosion on the edge of the discs. I'll probably have to flatten down the pads a bit after I fit new discs.

Well I'm just about to add 'viggen' brakes to the front of my 9-5..
New calipers discs and pads...
Same setup as on the front of the 9-5 aero and 9-3 viggen, so makes it easy come replacement time!

Std lpt front disc 288mm, 'viggen' disc 308mm!

Am I right in assuming that the 288 discs are the same on all lpt 9-5's? Even the ones with 15 inch steel wheelss? If so, the 20mm increase in diameter means they should fit under 16 inch alloy wheels on the SE. Or am I missing something ?

They willfit under a 16" but its tight with the caliper....
When I've got them on I'll do some measuring!

Just for info...

After a long and thankfully fruitfull search I have found a local supplier for my Brembo discs.

For those of you who wish to get hold of some try C.D.S. (quite appropriate really ) in Kidderminster on 01562 512505. They are the main disributors for Brembo in the UK as I understand. They should be able to direct you to someone local to you, I was very lucky as my supplier is just three miles away. Even better they say they will do the discs for £27 + vat .
I'll have to wait for the backorder on the DS2500's though.... http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Nick.

Originally posted by cdcarlsson:
I'll have to wait for the backorder on the DS2500's though.... * http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif [/b]Don't Circuit Supplies have the DS2500s? Their prices include postage.


Originally posted by Mark E:
Circuit Supplies (UK) Ltd
Unit 22, Harmill Industrial Estate, Grovebury Road, Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, LU7 8FF.
Tel: (01525) 385888
Fax: (01525) 385898
E-mail: info@circuitsupplies.com [/b]Now we have the main UK dealers for both Ferodo Racing and Brembo, I think we're all set.

Circuit Supplies also got the rear Brembo brake discs in for me -took about 2 days and cost £48 for the pair (slightly less than normal 'cos I pciked 'em up)

Don't Circuit Supplies have the DS2500s? *[/b]Er, no! The backorder is due to a wait on the production line in Italy being run up for this particular set. Tim will be getting back to me about the lead time when he receives a reply to his e-mail. He also mentioned that he has sold nearly twice as many sets this year already compared to the whole of last year - I blame Saabscene! Ten sets are on back order, and I own two of them, that's no greed on my part, the other set are for a friend.

Just how good are these from cold gents?

Nick.

Originally posted by cdcarlsson:
Just how good are these from cold gents?[/b]In my experience, better than standard, but not quite as good as M1144s. However, they do have the edge over 1144s for sheer stopping power when you stand on them, and I found them much more fade-resistant on the track, although that probably won't make much difference on the road.

Originally posted by cdcarlsson:
*He also mentioned that he has sold nearly twice as many sets this year already compared to the whole of last year - I blame Saabscene! * * [/b]I really must talk to him about my own personal discount then as I "found" him http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

DS2500's are very good from cold, much better than standard, and improve slightly with a little more heat.

At £48 squid for a packet of two I will be paying them a visit!

Oh, I've just found out that Ken Jone's place (in Rugby) is half a mile from where I'll be living. Easy living!

Thanks guys, just wanted some independant reassurance that they would be okay for normal driving. I'm quite light on the brakes, a habit I picked up in my formative driving years, but I want the backup of a substansial track pad for June.

Nick.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't Circuit Supplies have the DS2500s?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Er, no![/b]Not helped by me having 2 full sets, mark having some last week, and Bill, and...

£48 for a pair orear disks? mine were £32+vat. I did pay over the odds as 34+v for fronts each though!

Reviving this thread with an update on disc pricing:

Today I bought two pairs of the Brembo front discs. One pair is to replace those on the Aero that I think I warped on the track at Castle Combe in March when gearbox failure stopped the car in full flight with very hot brakes and no cool-down lap. The other pair will go on the CSE auto as the brakes on that are truly awful (cheap discs from Euro Car Parts).

I got them from German, Swedish and French in Hemel Hempstead. Their list price for them is £26.50 + VAT (£31.14 inclusive) per disc (priced separately, even though they're only sold in pairs). Since I was buying two sets and a wheel bearing (i.e. spending a substantial amount of money), I got quite a bit off that price.

If you're ordering, all you need to tell them is that you want Brembo discs for a 9000 (and the model year, of course). You'll get the right ones (I checked the part number). The same part number covers all 9000s with ABS. They had to order them in and had them next day (they could have them same day if it was really urgent). They won't know which Brembo part number it is until they have the box in front of them as they only know their own stock number, but they got it right.

What this confirms is that the discs Trent Saab sell as part of their "Group N" kit these days are simply high quality standard replacements for the OEM discs and aren't anything special, nor do they warrant a high price tag.

As far as I remember the rears were around £17+VAT (£19.98 inclusive) each from GSF. I might get a pair of those for the CSE too.

By the way, I've recently fitted DS3000 pads to the front. No experience on the track yet, but I can report how they do on the road. Bear in mind that these results were achieved with the (standard replacement) Brembo discs.

Cold performance:
At least as good as DS2500, and possibly better. Perhaps as good as 1144 and certainly better than standard Saab pads. My standard test is to proceed to the main road through my estate using only the handbrake (and only where absolutely necessary), then perform an emergency stop from 30mph (usually at the same point where the EBC GreenStuff let me down miserably). The DS3000 passed this test with flying colours and can give a hint of ABS even in the dry and with ultra-grippy Bridgestone S-03 tyres.

Warm performance:
When warm, bite is excellent and multiple stops from high speed don't seem to worry the pads at all. I'll be surprised if I ever find the limits of these pads on the road and I'm looking forward to trying them on the track. Subjectively, deceleration from high speed feels excellent - even better than the DS2500. I'll try to do an objective braking test in the near future.

Dust:
Well, they're just as dusty as the DS2500. However, at least during road use, the dust is a lot less "clingy" than that from the DS2500 and is very easy to wipe off. I'm told that it takes on a completely different character under hard track use, where the pads continue to work up to such a high temperature that they start to spray the wheels with sparks of molten brake disc material. Again, I'll report back after the next track day. Needless to say that I don't intend to fit my new wheels until I've seen what effect these pads have on wheels during a track day

Disc wear:
These pads are said to be hard on discs. They certainly feel quite abrasive underfoot and after around a week (1000 miles) of use, there is some visible light scoring of the discs. However, since I've found a cheap source for the Brembo discs...

Noise:
Now the bad news...
While the DS3000s are very quiet under moderate-to-hard braking, after a few hundred miles of use they started to squeal under light use and they can be rather embarrassing in traffic. Some brake squeal under light use is to be expected with any competition brake compound, but these are quite a bit worse than the DS2500 and M1144. I can imagine an automatic equipped with these pads being something that you wouldn't want to be seen (or heard) driving. Ever!
Think of the sort of noise a bus or lorry can make while braking. And I don't even have DS3000 on the rear http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

Then again, these pads are described as being "not for road use", so the fact that they perform very well under all road conditions and their only drawback is a bit of noise in traffic is quite a pleasant surprise.

Saw at abbott today in one of their stores lots of Brembo boxed Discs.

Looks like it's the disc of choice.

Andrew