: Power hungy over the top moderators
03-12-2004, 06:04 AM
Having recently read the thread about new saab specialists saab torque uk supplying saab parts, I have to question the over the top nature of this forum's moderators.
In no way is a topic like this at the "expense of saab scene" - This IS for the members of saab scene.
The member has obviously taken time from his day to let us all know that something new is out there for saab owners.
Say for instance he does own the site in question, so what? He is providing a option for you to use his services. If you dont want to use them, then dont.
This site is supposed to be for saab enthuiasts - as a saab enthuiast, I welcome being informed of something new appearing, I will then make my own judgement as to its usefulness - If it is not for me then I will not bother with the topic and move on.
Basically, not everyone has the same point of view - therefore the moderators should be a bit more open minded, if the post is not of interest to you, dont read it. Dont reply either.
Saabscene should have sections of the site dedicated for suppliers. Had the saab scene moderators done their jobs properly, they should have a link page to the top saab performance specialists and a pick of the best accessories suppliers, whereby they have negotiated a minimum 10% discount for it's members use - Like many other forums! -
My rant is over. I like saab scene, but it lacks the free flowing nature of other forums - something should be done about this to cater for all tastes and topics, not just moaned at or locked.
03-12-2004, 07:12 AM
I hear your concerns and I'm sorry that you feel that the policies set out in SaabScene's AUP (http://www.saabscene.co.uk/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000011) are unfair.
The reason why we are so tough on commercial posters is that we are very keen to demonstrate that we have no bias towards any particular commercial entity. Therefore we cannot allow "recommendations" which have come direct from the supplier of the goods/services being recommended but we do allow genuine recommendations from the customers of such suppliers. IOHO recommendations that are not "genuine" are a form of free advertising and therefore contradict the AUP.
I assure you that nobody here is power hungry, nor do we have any bone to pick with Saabtorque, in fact I myself plan to give them a call in the near future regarding a requirement I have.
I hope that you understand our position.
03-12-2004, 07:37 AM
Answering your point relating to "something should be done about this to cater for all tastes and topics"...
Saabscene was established with the intention that it should be a technical and knowledge database for Saab owners. By minimising the "chat" and off topic content, it makes it far easier for members to use the search facility to find answers to their problems without having to wade through copious irrelevant posts.
We do review this policy regularly and for now, we are happy with the balance.
There are other forums which are more chat oriented; we don't feel the need to compete with them for wasted bandwidth .
03-12-2004, 07:37 AM
I completely understand your position.
The reason is, almost every post of a 'commercial' nature is met with scepticism as to its authenticity.
Surely to benefit every member, a suppliers discount section is needed?
The inclusion of companies on this list possibly formed by a request for a link from the businesses, suitable saab scene members discount and a reccomendation from a saabscene user that has used their services? (to sift out the bad companies or unknown quantities)
I'm sure that this would not mean saab scene being biased towards and one specific company, as any other company could also request it supplies the saab scene members with significant discount - surely a good situation for the members to be in?
03-12-2004, 07:53 AM
I don't understand your problem with suppliers . For 99% of the time, we have no problems with folk recommending suppliers, and it works well. These recommendations, however, are only valid as long as the person making them has no self interest or is being offered an inducement to do so.
In my opinion this actually works better than a simple list of suppliers (most folk have managed this with their "Favorites" list anyway) as you will get a supplier linked within a thread specific to the part required, rather than have to browse through their pages or waste telephone calls.
03-12-2004, 08:40 AM
Surely to benefit every member, a suppliers discount section is needed? *[/b]This is not a club this is a forum. This is an important destinction.
There are no membership rewards for members of the forum, because, again, this isn't a club. There is no magazine, no AGM, no request for subscription.
On the whole Saabscene is provided to you for free, at a cost, which is covered by voluntary donations.
Moderators have no financial nor organisational affiliation with Saabscene, they do the work out of their own time as volunteers.
It is a place for information exchange by owners/perspective owners of Saabs and not an advertising free for all.
And therefore, Saabscene does not owe anything to any supplier of Saab services or equipment in terms of coverage or content - precisely because it asks nothing in terms of discount.
This is the ONLY Saabforum in the English language that is truely free from the possible corrupting influence of advertisers and the advice given.
03-12-2004, 10:25 AM
I don't want to wade into already murky waters, but I can see the points of both side of the coin.
However it is the rule of the site, and we all have to either put up with it, or move on.
I myself promised a few weeks ago to ask the owner of a certain SAAB specialist (name with held in order not to break the rules http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ) what his company's policy was on discounts for certain SAAB sites or clubs. His reply was that he does not advertise on any of these sites, and therefore does not expect any loyalty in terms of business from any SAAB site. That is a fair and honest comment in my opinion. He did also add that he judges every case on its merit. That includes any discount given to SAAB clubs members, or SAAB website "members". As far as he is concerned, as long as there is a choice of places to get repairs done or buy spares cheaply, that's OK with him. It wasn't so when he was more or less forced to start his SAAB business in order to keep his own SAAB on the road.
In any case, there is a section on this board where visitors can make their views known on recommended SAAB dealers etc. I say we stick to that location for this sort of stuff.
03-12-2004, 12:28 PM
I have read everyones comments, and agree with sections of both sides of the argument.
1) The admin team seem to be a bit over the top in some cases, but in others are perfectly fair, but I think the balance is not yet there.
2)The main point of viney post seems to be a member discount scheme. I would agree with this, yes this may be a forum, but what harm is there to create one extra area for TOP saab suppliers "to be vetted" who would appreciate the extra business and would aid all members in modifying their car and keeping it's up keep. Mark A, Mark E and Jason, can you really tell me that if, for example, ELKPARTS offered a 10 % discount on all parts for saab scene members, that you would not want this ?
03-12-2004, 12:49 PM
Mark A, Mark E and Jason, can you really tell me that if, for example, ELKPARTS offered a 10 % discount on all parts for saab scene members, that you would not want this ?
*[/b]If thats what you want.. then join the official saab club for your country.
Turkish, you eloquently summarise above, so if I may respond to your points:
1. The team of people that facilitate Saabscene do so because they have a genuine interest in Saabs and in helping other people (or indeed asking questions, since nobody here has a monopoly on knowledge). The only way in which they are rewarded is satisfaction that their participation has been constructive. Personally, I think that they get the balance right most times, but given that we are all human it is a subjective area.
2. Member discount scheme. The Saab Owners Club runs one already. Saab dealers (and some specialists?) give discounts to Saab Owners Club members - details with the SOC.
Further discounts from suppliers: Saabscene allows genuine recommendations from genuine members but it will not tolerate any person trying to serrupticiously hawk their wares on this board. When Eurocarparts became guilty of this a couple of years ago, they apologised and generously offered all Saabscene members a 10% discount on their orders.
Power hungry moderators?
Saabscene grew out of the basic forum of my original website (known as The Saab Pages) which I started back in 1996 or so.
My friend Kevin Mc was hugely instrumental in drumming up support for the forums and we grew from there with others volunteering their help along the way, all knowing the intention was with a bias towards Saab technical knowledge exchange and Saab interest.
Saabscene is my hobby and my aim is that people around the world can benefit from sharing this Saab information with each other http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
If you believe that the moderators are power hungry then let me assure you that they are not. They are interested in sharing experience and knowledge. I have met most of them and they are all good guys. If my assurance is not good enough for you then I suggest that Saabscene is not the forum that you are looking for, sorry.
03-12-2004, 01:43 PM
I for one vote with the moderators. Closer link with suppliers may be welcome - but they would not do something for nothing (Which is what Kevin and John are currently doing).In return for the 10% discount, the supplier may well want (For instance) a pop-up advert. If there are 10 suppliers offering 10% discount - thats 10 pop-up adverts.I (And almost everyone with whom I broach the subject) detest pop-ups with a passion.
Suddenly this becomes a parts selling forum rather than exchange of opinions and help to those in need. Keep up the good work - they've saved me time and money!
03-12-2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Stuart Crofts:
*Keep up the good work - they've saved me time and money! [/b]Stuart thats a really good point http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif I have recieved the most accurate and detailed help and diagnosis of my cars problems, allowing me to shop around for the correct part and the correct fitter (or even the assistance to DIY most things!) Its this assistance that saves vast sums of money, far in excess of 10% of anything.
03-12-2004, 02:49 PM
I enjoy the board for the information exchange and the subsequent comments and a bit of banter. You can probably deduce this from the number of posts I make. I enjoy it for its independence. This independence is sacrosanct and, as said above, no traders are allowed to push their products - even in the Classifieds.
There is a lot of discussion among the staff before most "editing" of the posts. And on the few occasions when it happens the action is in the open and the people involved usually given a reason. It may be that for this reason you are aware that the board is moderated.
There are other boards around where you may not be aware of any moderation. This could be because:
1. There isn't any - these usually degenerate into long, rambling off-topic posts full of boasting and four letter words.
2. "Moderation" is done on the whim of a single person who deletes anything they don't agree with, and give no explanation. Any complaints are ignored or deleted and the poster may be banned. On the surface everything is sweetness and light, but underneath that surface veneer the board may be subject to censoring rather than moderation.
3. The board may be sponsored and any reference or recommendation of non-sponsors businesses are deleted without explanation and the poster treated in the same way as 2. above.
I would much rather be a member of a bulletin board which operates in an open way. If you want to test my assertions try posting something contentious on some other boards (not necessarily Saab related) and see what your success rate is.
As for being power hungry? Not on this board. When I feel the need for power I drive my Aero!! http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/fawlty.gif
03-12-2004, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by turkish:
Mark A, Mark E and Jason, can you really tell me that if, for example, ELKPARTS offered a 10 % discount on all parts for saab scene members, that you would not want this ? [/b]If that happened, then I would step down as a moderator and leave the board.
I really do feel that strongly about it. I've come across other boards where blatant manipulation and posting for personal gain is rife. I don't post on those boards anymore.
There have been some relevant points raised here; however I also feel that some folk have been stirring things for the sake of it http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif . I reiterate my earlier point- Saabscene was established to be an impartial database of information to Saab owners, not a gossip column. It's free to everyone. Funding is on a purely voluntary basis. If you don't agree with the style or value, then don't make a contribution- but equally don't expect any right to criticise.
We don't censor things here other than when they breach the AUP- which is why we're having this discussion now. You won't find that on any other site...
03-12-2004, 05:49 PM
you really tell me that if, for example, ELKPARTS offered a 10 % discount on all parts for saab scene members, that you would not want this?
03-17-2004, 06:50 AM
My six pennyworth.
Why fix something that ain't broke.
Saabscene is for my the best source of information & comraderie around. There are other sites that promote businesses - good luck to them, but if I am looking for a supplier I always look on this site, because I know it's not biased
I for one would question any attempt to link to businesses.
Anyway it's the only place where I can enthuse Saab and not feel that someone is giving me that strange, sat next to a nutter look.
Those that give their time freely deserve a pat on the back http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
Agree completely with Naranto.
I feel strongly against the allegation against the moderators saying 'Power hungy over the top moderators'. A suggestion might have been a better way to put one's ideas but such a topic name is demeaning. This site is run so well by the moderators without any bias for any business or person. It is one great place for having a free discussion about Saabs without feeling stupid or getting business biased opinions.
The moderators and all the people who run the site certainly deserve tons of appreciation for making it the forum it is. http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
03-17-2004, 04:29 PM
Hear hear neel! Without this board and its in depth knowledge of Saabs in general I would be driving about in a bog standard LPT, now wheres the fun in that?? http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
03-18-2004, 05:41 AM
I've been watching the comments appear on this thread and it's been quite interesting. I can only imagine the amount of time and effort that the moderators and admin staff of SSc put into maintaining the site, and into ensuring the quality of dialogue and advice we receive from each other.
I am personally very grateful for this, and for the objectivity and truly expert opinions that are expressed when required. I also appreciate the subjective views that people will always request and wish to share.
I, like may others, enjoy a bit of banter, you have to have some fun in everything in life. But I'm not interested in this forum degenerating into the on-line equivalent of the post-pub text-in "TV shows" that seem to be popping up all over the place.
IMO The focus of SSc is pretty much bang on. I come hear to share knowledge, experience, ideas and opinions with broadly like-minded individuals and not with someone trying to sell me something. There are several contributors to the board who do have a commercial interest in Saabs, but they leave that behind when posting here. I respect and admire that objectivity.
I hope we can all continue to support the board and each other in the way it was intended, otherwise I'll certainly find somewhere else to hang my anorak (thank God for that I hear some say ).
03-19-2004, 05:07 AM
Are the moderators power hungry?
No, I don't think they are. I have enjoyed reading the threads and contributing to them. I have even had my knuckles rapped for a couple of contributions. On both occasions the rapping was fully justified as I had infringed the AUP (http://www.saabscene.co.uk/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/16/t/000011.html). So, having been on the 'receiving end' I am still happy to be here at SSc and contribute where I can. I appreciate the work the moderators do as it is vital to the quality of this site.
The stuff I have learnt about Saabs is brilliant. I have been able to use this acquired knoweldge to my advantage when talking to main dealers. Worth more than any discount to me http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
Thank you SSC staff
03-19-2004, 05:22 AM
I for one have also been watching this thread with interest and I am actually pleased that people have been allowed the freedom to discuss this. To me this actually highlights how fair the moderators actually are and I for one am happy with things as they stand.
Change can be a good thing but heaven knows the problems that can occur if we simply 'change for change sake'. The great thing about this forum is the impartiality that exists and that is something to treasure. I agree with Neel in that the topic heading may have been a bit over the top, but there again peoples views on this board are never discounted out of hand. How many other forums can say that. http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
A lot of the questions asked an this board may sometimes seem trivial (not to the individual asking I may add) but they are treated with the same respect and advice as some of the more serious issues. I think the moderators have something to do with that in the way they encourage collegues to not be afraid to ask for help. I may not be a novice in the mechanical world but I am hardly an expert and I fully appreciate the help received here. Quick response needed for a Saab problem, then this forum shows the way.
Once we get into the world of asscociation with outside companies impartiality is bound to be comprimised. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate discounts as well as the next man/woman but I can usually manage to abtain that outside this forum.
All this of course is just my opinion for what it's worth.