http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?...6&sid=180&n=157 (http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5106&sid=180&n=157)

Another on-line review of the new 9-3 - this time from an american perspective.

... lights blue touch-paper and runs away...

A fairly balanced review, I thought.

We’re happy to report that during two days of driving, we and our driving partner experienced effectively no torque steer whatsoever with the automatic-equipped powertrains and only the vaguest hint of pull with the smaller engine in a manual transmission configuration. Surprisingly, several fellow journalists driving other test vehicles had decidedly different experiences. Normally, we’d brush that off, but considering Saab’s reputation, it needs note. Variation in prototypes? Perhaps. Or maybe it was just a case of seeing what you had come bound and determined to find. All we can say is that our own experience was quite positive.

...which says a lot for many of the reviews one reads about Saab. This torque steer thing? Every car magazine mentions it without fail in the same article as the word Saab.

I have 200bhp going through the front wheels of my 9-3. Now I drive in a spirited and enthusiastic way (ie: fast) and I have never experienced torque steer on my car. I'm not saying that it is not there, I am sure I could find it if I really tried, but I haven't found it so far. So what on earth are these motoring journalists doing?

Interesting.

1. first straight-on shot of the dash I've seen. Confirms my feeling that it's nothing like as attractive as current. I'm concerned (as is this reviewer) about the number of pushbuttons.

2. Amazed that they say interior ergonomics have never been a Saab strong point - erm, sorry? Maybe Porsche just about equal Saab, but the general consensus is surely that no-one else has ever come close?

3. Interesting that they mention other journos not agreeing re. the elimination of torque steer - IIRC Andrew English was very critical in the Telegraph (still not online).

For my part, John, I get torque steer every time I put my foot down. But then we've established long since I can't drive

If you want to experience torque steer, drive a standard, non-Abbotized Viggen. That will be a better explanation than a thousand words I could write here.

Torque steer?

It's there /John, it's there, lurking like some dark, evil monster waiting to snap at your wrists.
Remember: SAAB 93 + damp road = right foot pressure x moist trousers

And as far as reviews go there is a pretty strong ant-SAAB/front wheel drive contingent in the press world wide. I have always found UK's 'CAR' magazine gives the most balanced SAAB reviews - so I'll be very interested in their 93 Sport Saloon test.

For my part, John, I get torque steer every time I put my foot down. But then we've established long since I can't drive *[/b]You have 5bhp more than I do!


It's there /John, it's there, lurking like some dark, evil monster waiting to snap at your wrists. *
Remember: SAAB 93 + damp road = right foot pressure x moist trousers *[/b]TORQUE STEER

Definition: The annoying tendency of some front-wheel drive vehicles to pull to one side when engine torque is applied. In other words, you step on the gas and the car wants to steer right or left. By redesigning the power train to use equal length half shafts between the transaxle and wheels, the tendency towards torque steer can be greatly reduced. The other cure is to keep off the gas.

Like I say, I am no sunday driving grandad when it comes to driving - but I have yet to experience this phenomenon in my normal driving unless I actually go looking for it.

Perhaps it is the case that I am aware of the limits of the vehicle and do not needlessly push it beyond them? Maybe I just do not want to wear out the rubber? Maybe you lot stand on the loud pedal? I dunno

several test vehicles did exhibit a wind whistle where door seals weren’t working right. We’re promised these will be fixed by the time full production begins in the coming weeks.

Aaaaaargh!!! The chink in the armour. The dreaded, and much-talked-about-on-Saabscene feature of the outgoing 9-3 which certainly made it through to production. Why do they have such problems with door seals? I figure the testers must have the CD player on when they go for a spin and miss this feature which still plagues my car dreadfully at speed.

Please do not ignore it this time Saab! Else I may well change my mind about my next car.

The annoying tendency *[/b]I quite enjoy the torque steer - shows you have a car with power. Adds to the fun! (I'm talking about an 11 year old car, and wouldn't expect it to be so noticeable in the new 9-3).

yeah kevin I love that swinging from lane to lane on full power take offs..
and that is with tcs and lsd... http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif

FWIW I open up my Aero pretty much whenever the road conditions permit, and I've never found torque steer to be a problem. I think the seeing what you had come bound and determined to find is spot on.

So it looks like the 9-3 might do reasonably well on the other side of the pond, then, and lure a few folk away from their BMs and Infinitis. Which will, in turn, help sales figures no end. Jolly good.

Interesting that the review also mentions future cooperation between Saab and Cadillac, even if the proposed SUV is dead. Well I guess this will probably help Saab in the US, but I can't help thinking it's a bad thing in Europe.

Cheers

James

Here's anothr eview, this tim from 4car.co.uk - reads very well indeed, especially the Aero.

4car 9-3 Review (http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=231_2&reviewid=529)

Hopefully early next week I shall catch up with my Journo friend who drove them all in Sweden last week - he says it was great, but hasn't had a chance to expand on it yet - will post more when I know!

Hi guys. First post here from across the pond. I confess, I don't know a lot about Saabs, but this 9-3 is looking sweet! I'm a car enthusiast and I enjoy seeing companies upping the ante with new designs and spec's.

My wife is due up for a car, and she was all set on getting a 5spd IS300 until we saw pictures of the 9-3. Looks like we're going to wait until next year (gotta check out the Aero package).

BTW, what kind of tuning potential does Saab have (especially on this side of the pond)? Just to give you a background, I've got an A4 so I know I've got tons of options. Of course, if this turbo V6 with AWD comes out, I might not need it!

In Sweden, one of four newly delivered Saabs gets to see an aftermarket tuner within the first three months. How's that for an answer?

Seriously, more info here:
www.turboteameurope.com (http://www.turboteameurope.com)

Happy Saabing,
Eric

Welcome to the board Demos!

The new 9-3 does look very, very nice - I picked up a brochure yesterday, and the Aero looks awesome.

As Eric said, there are a lot of cars that get tuned up, and there are no shortage of places to get the tuning done.

With the outgoing 9-3 (especially the Viggen), a lot of money was spent by customers on upgrading the suspension - I believe this has been addressed in the new 9-3, hopefully leaving some cash spare for other improvements!

It does sound like an excellent car, and a serious contender to the BM 3's and A4's.

Roll on Sept 1st.....

Welcome Demos.

Hirsch are Saab's approved tuning company, though there are plenty of other rogue oufits such as Abbott.

Apparently the Aero model (standard 210bhp) will have a Hirsch upgrade option to lift it up to 260bhp, without affecting the cars 3-year warranty.... should be worth a look!

Originally posted by Redleicester (H):
Hirsch are Saab's approved tuning company, though there are plenty of other rogue oufits such as Abbott.
[/b]I know Hirsch are the officially sanctioned tuner, but I think it's a bit harsh to describe Abbott, Trent et al as 'rogue outfits'. After all, Abbott were on the verge of taking Saab into the BTCC until GM pulled the plug.

Abbott were arguably the market leaders, at least here in the UK, until the advent of the 9-5; certainly they know their stuff when it comes to C900s, 9000s and NG900s. But they do seem to have fallen behind when it comes to the 9-5, and Hirsh's offerings look a lot more convincing. I wonder if their new 'project 9-5' will redress the balance?

NB I'm admittedly rather biased on this one, having had Abbott do their thing to my 900 a couple of years ago

No no no James! My phraseology has caught me out - I meant "rogue" in the terms of "unsanctioned" as opposed to Hirsch officially approved status.

Abbott and Trent and their compatriots do sterling service, and hopefully will continue to do so for years to come.

It's rather lime AMG at Mercedes - their cars are now officially integrated into the Merc model range, whereas Brabus are rogue, producing their own tunings and marketing them separately.



(You were just trying to cach me out again weren't you??!!)

Aha. Understand completely. It's a bit of a shame, really, that opting for the Abbott / Brabus / Schnitzer option will, nine times out of ten, void your warranty http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I also think one can make a distinction between 'specialist' tuners, as in Hirsch, Abbot & co, and more broad-based ones such as Superchips. I've no experience of them at all, but instinct tells me I'd rather go with someone who was more Saab-focused.

Looking at the way this thread has gone, who was it who suggested that the fourth geometric trim level for the new 9-3 be designated 'tangent'?

Speak about the devil - just got the Top Gear website newsletter...

http://www.topgear.beeb.com/content/latest...7/19/index.html (http://www.topgear.beeb.com/content/latest/news/articles/2002/07/19/index.html)

Performance-wise, target figures are 0 to 60mph in 7.0 seconds,

Three and a half grand spent on it and it still isn't as fast as my "old" 9-3

An inspiring press release from Abbott Racing imparted the revolutionary tidings that the R3 is aimed at “enthusiastic drivers who want to take the standard car a step further in terms of even sharper handling and acceleration”, which really goes without saying.

...which makes you wonder why the writer had to mention it, unless they had to pad out the article a bit?

Couldn't find a mention of the R3 on Abbott's website. Oh well. http://www.saabscene.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Sorry to get everyone off topic talking about tuners. I'm sure more than one tuner thread will pop up when the car hits the general populace.

I like the car for its looks, apparent roominess (is that a word?), and potential performance. What I am concerned about is its quality. The reviews have talked about minor squeaks and workmanship issues that will be taken care of prior to official market entry. What are your thoughts about Saab's (and this new 9-3 in particular)quality and reliability? I'm always a little skeptical with cars with GM/Ford/Chrysler ties.

Well, I am glad to say that Saab has about as much to do with your ordinary GM product as Mercedes-Benz with a Neon. Honestly, as the US-built vehicles we get over here are of reputedly of 'export quality' I am wondering how you folks on the other end of the pond put up with the build quality of Chevy's, Chryslers and Fords over there! Luckily, Saabs are still in a different ballpark. Not perfect, you know, but reliability and quality of Saabs certainly has moved to the higher end of the scale over the past few years (as documented by the 9-5 winning the mid-luxury class in the 2001 JD Power initial quality study, in front of Lexus and BMW).

In the early days after the GM takeover, Saab had to put up with a lot of Opel parts that was rather hurriedly implemented in the 'new gen' 900, and there were a lot of quality complaints during the first year.
But now, it's the other way round - the design of 'Epsilon'platform on which the Opel Vectra, 9-3 and a host of upcoming GM models are based, was headed by Saab, for instance, and beleive me thy made d*mn sure that every part they would use themselves fully met their requirements this time!

The build quality of the cars I saw and drove seems to be on a par with that of Audi/BMW, and better than Mercedes' of late.

Happy Saabing,
Eric

Thanks for that note of confidence Eric! Yes, I agree the build quality of the Big 3 are questionable; that's why I have an Audi and my wife has a Honda right now . I missed the JD Power report you mentioned about the 9-5 so it's good to see Saab being rewarded for its efforts. I'm not bashing GM here, but I'm glad Saab is taking the initiative in leading this design.